Balpa & Klm-uk
Otterman, if you, any of your mainline colleagues or any pilots from KLC, see the above results, please spread the word that, despite what disinformation someone at the top is telling you, KLMuk pilots are NOT happy with the current terms of the merger!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
No Nightstop, the future's still yellow, imagine all those hi-vis jackets gathered around the brazier outside Endeavour House ! BTW, got the new car yet ?
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Just in case anyone is misled by Flap 40's post. This was an official polling by BALPA of its members of the acceptability of the companys proposal.
86% of the BALPA members polled responded.
95.4% voted NO.
Never before on any issue has BALPA had such unanimous backing from the membership.
We await the companys reconsideration of its position, and failing that our offical ballot forms for industrial action.
The gloves are coming off, and beyond the transfer rights issue there are many other old scores to be settled.
86% of the BALPA members polled responded.
95.4% voted NO.
Never before on any issue has BALPA had such unanimous backing from the membership.
We await the companys reconsideration of its position, and failing that our offical ballot forms for industrial action.
The gloves are coming off, and beyond the transfer rights issue there are many other old scores to be settled.
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Yes, sorry if it was not clear. It was a poll/ballot (call it what you will) that was conducted by BALPA but is "unofficial" in the sense that another "official" postal ballot will be required before any industrial action can take place.
Hopefully this afternoons meeting between the Company and BALPA will give a positive result.
Hopefully this afternoons meeting between the Company and BALPA will give a positive result.
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Otterman
There are huge holes in my knowledge, but I don’t quite understand why a KLM UK pilot cannot transfer to BUZZ (is this because of limited training capacity).
You are based in Amsterdam, and presume have a nice house and family nearby.
KLMuk has pilots spread all over the the UK, not only are we based at Stansted but at Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Humberside, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.
Buzz is only based at Stansted ,so you can see that for the pilots at the other bases to transfer to Buzz they would have to up root their families and move.......
Hopefully you can now see why most of the pilots will not be transferring to Buzz....
There are huge holes in my knowledge, but I don’t quite understand why a KLM UK pilot cannot transfer to BUZZ (is this because of limited training capacity).
You are based in Amsterdam, and presume have a nice house and family nearby.
KLMuk has pilots spread all over the the UK, not only are we based at Stansted but at Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Humberside, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.
Buzz is only based at Stansted ,so you can see that for the pilots at the other bases to transfer to Buzz they would have to up root their families and move.......
Hopefully you can now see why most of the pilots will not be transferring to Buzz....
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Still here
One thing that is not clear to me is what deal this sms ballot was against. What is it that gives the most resistance? Are we talking about the internal difficulties that KLM UK has in filling in its strategy for the future? Buzz, KLC UK etc. Or are the transfer rights to KLM (and the lack of seniority) the problem? Base re-locations? Operational integration with KLC? T & C’s within KLM UK or BUZZ? How detailed are the things that you have been offered?
I wholeheartedly agree that KLM management is going about this in a very ham handed way. They should be working out exactly what they want to do with the different market segments, and than sell it to the employees. At the moment it looks like they are trying to run before learning to walk properly.
The BUZZ plan is still too vague to plan your future on. As far as the integration of KLM UK/KLC that makes sense to me, but should not be rushed, as it seems to be right now. To be clear; the deal worked out between the VNV and KLM has my support, although the semantics within the “new” KLC is something that in my opinion can be talked about, it is also outside my field of view. If indeed the 1/3 share of reserved seats for “old” KLM UK pilots is not fair, it should be looked at. I have no power whatsoever to make is so.
Bohpilot, I do indeed live near Amsterdam, in a lovely row house with a lovely family. I grew up in Canada, and moved to Holland when I joined KLM; the rest of the family lives back in Canada. You are right those were my choices, but things are rarely as black and white as they appear to be. The pilot group at KLM is quite diverse. I wish that for you and the rest of our colleague’s at KLM UK things could stay the same, but I think that is about the only option that is not on the table. It is a company’s prerogative to close a base at anytime and retrench their business somewhere else. Air UK was a company that did a lot more diverse flying than KLM UK does. Basically the whole raison d’être for both KLM UK and KLC is to feed Schiphol. Change is coming, not much you and I can do about that. Would I like it if I had to uproot again? No. Would I? Hell yes. A job is something precious especially in these times.
I wish you at KLM UK luck. I believe the fight is where it should be. Let BALPA do their thing with KLM, it will lead to the best result. For myself, I have no preconceived wishes on what is to happen, I am just following developments with great interest. As I believe it will have repercussions for the future.
Just for your information the VNV has started up its industrial action committee at Transavia. BUZZ, although not the major issue, definitely plays a role here as well. So things are not quiet on the labour front within KLM group.
I wholeheartedly agree that KLM management is going about this in a very ham handed way. They should be working out exactly what they want to do with the different market segments, and than sell it to the employees. At the moment it looks like they are trying to run before learning to walk properly.
The BUZZ plan is still too vague to plan your future on. As far as the integration of KLM UK/KLC that makes sense to me, but should not be rushed, as it seems to be right now. To be clear; the deal worked out between the VNV and KLM has my support, although the semantics within the “new” KLC is something that in my opinion can be talked about, it is also outside my field of view. If indeed the 1/3 share of reserved seats for “old” KLM UK pilots is not fair, it should be looked at. I have no power whatsoever to make is so.
Bohpilot, I do indeed live near Amsterdam, in a lovely row house with a lovely family. I grew up in Canada, and moved to Holland when I joined KLM; the rest of the family lives back in Canada. You are right those were my choices, but things are rarely as black and white as they appear to be. The pilot group at KLM is quite diverse. I wish that for you and the rest of our colleague’s at KLM UK things could stay the same, but I think that is about the only option that is not on the table. It is a company’s prerogative to close a base at anytime and retrench their business somewhere else. Air UK was a company that did a lot more diverse flying than KLM UK does. Basically the whole raison d’être for both KLM UK and KLC is to feed Schiphol. Change is coming, not much you and I can do about that. Would I like it if I had to uproot again? No. Would I? Hell yes. A job is something precious especially in these times.
I wish you at KLM UK luck. I believe the fight is where it should be. Let BALPA do their thing with KLM, it will lead to the best result. For myself, I have no preconceived wishes on what is to happen, I am just following developments with great interest. As I believe it will have repercussions for the future.
Just for your information the VNV has started up its industrial action committee at Transavia. BUZZ, although not the major issue, definitely plays a role here as well. So things are not quiet on the labour front within KLM group.
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Just read the following news in our newspaper De Telegraaf today(short version):
Travel organisations angry about reorganisation Transavia.
They think that our scheduled services will be split between KLM and BUZZ. The low cost Basic Air service will be given to a new company, together with BUZZ too. The new name will probably stay BUZZ.
Then Transavia will stick to charters only.
The Travel organisations think FVP will anounce this next week.
They are angry because they can no longer receive any commision pay.
Any news about this from BUZZ-side or KLM-UK-side?
How about the ballot from BALPA?
hvpilot
Travel organisations angry about reorganisation Transavia.
They think that our scheduled services will be split between KLM and BUZZ. The low cost Basic Air service will be given to a new company, together with BUZZ too. The new name will probably stay BUZZ.
Then Transavia will stick to charters only.
The Travel organisations think FVP will anounce this next week.
They are angry because they can no longer receive any commision pay.
Any news about this from BUZZ-side or KLM-UK-side?
How about the ballot from BALPA?
hvpilot
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What about the 'age issue' ? In the intergrated final product, whatever they end up calling it, will all ex BUZZ and ex KLM UK pilots aged 56 and older be forced to retire immediately to be compatable with the KLC (VNV forced) early retirement age ?
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A minor aside - but relevant for a few! - from the very intriguing main thrust of this topic:
Should appropriate terms and conditions be thrashed out to everyone's (dis)satisfaction and the merger of KLMuk and KLC goes ahead in the near future - what will happen to the 15 or so KLMuk/Cabair sponsored cadets currently in the system, awaiting the KLMuk call up from early next year? Of which I happen to be one of course!
Will these guys and gals join KLC with an option to transfer to Buzz, KLC with no option to join Buzz, or will they join Buzz direct, or what?
I realise that current KLMuk pilots know little more about their future at the moment, but it would be nice to know that we are considered in the scheme of things.
This is a very specialised question that only senior KLMuk type persons could address, but I would much appreciate an answer on this forum because there is no other channel of communication between we sponsored and our sponsoring company (KLMuk).
Yours, Barney
Should appropriate terms and conditions be thrashed out to everyone's (dis)satisfaction and the merger of KLMuk and KLC goes ahead in the near future - what will happen to the 15 or so KLMuk/Cabair sponsored cadets currently in the system, awaiting the KLMuk call up from early next year? Of which I happen to be one of course!
Will these guys and gals join KLC with an option to transfer to Buzz, KLC with no option to join Buzz, or will they join Buzz direct, or what?
I realise that current KLMuk pilots know little more about their future at the moment, but it would be nice to know that we are considered in the scheme of things.
This is a very specialised question that only senior KLMuk type persons could address, but I would much appreciate an answer on this forum because there is no other channel of communication between we sponsored and our sponsoring company (KLMuk).
Yours, Barney
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Barney;
KLMuk is the AOC holder for BUZZ and as such will continue to exist in the near future, what is happening is the "blue" pilots are being transfered to KLC.
As a KLMuk sponsored cadet I presume you will be employed by KLMuk (BUZZ) when you have finished your training. however if you start with the company after the 1st Nov 2002 you will have no transfer rights to KLC, you will prob go direct onto the 146 or 737 instead of the F50.
I do not have any concrete information regarding cadets, the above is a best guess senario!! good luck...........
KLMuk is the AOC holder for BUZZ and as such will continue to exist in the near future, what is happening is the "blue" pilots are being transfered to KLC.
As a KLMuk sponsored cadet I presume you will be employed by KLMuk (BUZZ) when you have finished your training. however if you start with the company after the 1st Nov 2002 you will have no transfer rights to KLC, you will prob go direct onto the 146 or 737 instead of the F50.
I do not have any concrete information regarding cadets, the above is a best guess senario!! good luck...........
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As a hopefull employee of Buzz in the near future, I have been reading this forum with great interest. Can anyone offer anything positive as to the outcome of this KLMuk KLC Buzz situation?
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Regarding the article in the telegraaf and the question from Pies:
FVP stated in a memo yesterday that, as stated before, plans were shown to the unions under embargo. The unions had a positive feeling regarding this meeting.(VNV said there was no immediate concern).
Wednesday 30 october FVP will anounce the plans for Transavia (and probably BUZZ).
hvpilot
FVP stated in a memo yesterday that, as stated before, plans were shown to the unions under embargo. The unions had a positive feeling regarding this meeting.(VNV said there was no immediate concern).
Wednesday 30 october FVP will anounce the plans for Transavia (and probably BUZZ).
hvpilot
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The dutch Telegraaf (newspaper) announces that FVP will leave Transavia in order to concentrate on the expansion of BUZZ, now is this a rumor or a fact???????????
short flights long nights
Would be really nice if someone told ALL of us what the hell was going on. All these people just making descions that effect all of us, but telling us nothing
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Hope this is a positive development
Hello everyone,
I am sure most pilots from KLM UK are searching the internet at breakneck speed trying to find out what is up. As mentioned Transavia is holding two informational sessions today telling the folks who work there what they can expect. In another thread the KLM press release of today is mentioned. I hope in the meantime KLM UK management also found the time to tell my colleagues something. I know that most of you at KLM UK are coming up on a very important decision in the next day or so. Found this on a news site in regards to what FVP sees happening for BUZZ in the next few years. Substantial growth. Certainly the most of any segment within the KLM group of airlines. Now if BALPA can get a good deal for all the present group of pilots at KLM UK, I believe that there is scope for something positive coming out of all this upheaval. Hope I am not being to optimistic. Anymore news on the ballot for industrial action, and what it is that BALPA wants to achieve?
Regards, O.
This is off a news site
KLM sees Buzz fleet expanding to 30-40 aircraft in 3-4 yrs from 10 currently
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines spokesman Bart Koster said Buzz expects to expand its fleet of aircraft to 30-40 in the coming 3-4 years from 10 now.
He said that Buzz will start renewing and expanding its fleet by replacing its eight BAe 146 aircraft and two Boeing 737-300s with six new Boeing 737-300 aircraft.
Negotiations are also in place with lessors and manufacturers for further fleet renewal, he said, noting that new additions could be either 737-300's or Airbus aircraft.
Buzz is currently in talks with several UK airports on establishing a new UK base and an airport in France or Germany would also be a possibility due to Buzz strong market position, he said, not ruling out other locations to establish a base.
The spokesman said that KLM maintains its forecast for Buzz to break even by the end of the year.
I am sure most pilots from KLM UK are searching the internet at breakneck speed trying to find out what is up. As mentioned Transavia is holding two informational sessions today telling the folks who work there what they can expect. In another thread the KLM press release of today is mentioned. I hope in the meantime KLM UK management also found the time to tell my colleagues something. I know that most of you at KLM UK are coming up on a very important decision in the next day or so. Found this on a news site in regards to what FVP sees happening for BUZZ in the next few years. Substantial growth. Certainly the most of any segment within the KLM group of airlines. Now if BALPA can get a good deal for all the present group of pilots at KLM UK, I believe that there is scope for something positive coming out of all this upheaval. Hope I am not being to optimistic. Anymore news on the ballot for industrial action, and what it is that BALPA wants to achieve?
Regards, O.
This is off a news site
KLM sees Buzz fleet expanding to 30-40 aircraft in 3-4 yrs from 10 currently
KLM Royal Dutch Airlines spokesman Bart Koster said Buzz expects to expand its fleet of aircraft to 30-40 in the coming 3-4 years from 10 now.
He said that Buzz will start renewing and expanding its fleet by replacing its eight BAe 146 aircraft and two Boeing 737-300s with six new Boeing 737-300 aircraft.
Negotiations are also in place with lessors and manufacturers for further fleet renewal, he said, noting that new additions could be either 737-300's or Airbus aircraft.
Buzz is currently in talks with several UK airports on establishing a new UK base and an airport in France or Germany would also be a possibility due to Buzz strong market position, he said, not ruling out other locations to establish a base.
The spokesman said that KLM maintains its forecast for Buzz to break even by the end of the year.
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Here straight from the Buzz site:
30 October 2002
BUZZ SET FOR MASSIVE EXPANSION IN THE UK AND EUROPE
New bases and fleet for UK’s third largest low cost airline
buzz, the UK’s third largest low-cost airline, has announced aggressive expansion plans that include rolling out three new bases in the UK and Europe. The first new UK base will be Bournemouth Airport and flights will commence from March 2003 with seats on sale this Autumn. A second new UK base and a mainland Europe base will follow by the end of 2003. In addition, the airline’s seat capacity will increase by over 50% by the end of 2003 as the carrier replaces its current BAe 146 aircraft with larger 737-300 aircraft.
Speaking at KLM’s Investors Day in Amsterdam this morning, Floris J van Pallandt, CEO, buzz, said, "We have an unswerving commitment to developing the low cost market through implementing an ambitious growth strategy thus capitalising on the dramatic upsurge in consumer demand for low cost travel which has seen the dynamic of the industry change dramatically in the last six months. Coupled with an evolving business model, consistent year on year growth and 30% increase in passenger volume this year, we are well poised to continue our position as one of the leading low cost carriers in Europe."
Today’s announcement also sees buzz de-merge from KLM uk from 1 November 2002. buzz will then operate as its own fully fledged limited company within the KLM Group.
The deal with buzz is Bournemouth Airport's largest ever and will see over 200 jobs created as a direct result of the carrier’s intention to base two of its aircraft at the airport initially. buzz estimates that it will put 750,000 seats into the market from Bournemouth in its first year, through a selection of European routes.
Tony Camacho, Chief Commercial Officer of buzz, said "We have been courted by a number of UK airports but ultimately we felt that Bournemouth had the strongest offering. We believe that it’s a superb regional base for us to grow the South Coast market and offer flyers a welcome alternative to London Gatwick. Bournemouth is already the UK’s fastest growing airport and is therefore ideally suited to become another low-cost, stress-free gateway to Europe."
buzz is the UK’s third largest low cost operator and is the second largest low cost carrier in France and Germany. buzz currently flies 24 routes in Europe in France, Germany and Spain. Last year the airline carried 1.4 million passengers. By the end of 2002 buzz predicts it will carry 1.8 million flyers with 86% of bookings coming via the internet.
Be among the first to be notified of our new destinations from Bournemouth Airport by joining our Bournemouth buzz mail group.
Just enter your email address here
For full details on Bournemouth Airport see www.flybournemouth.com.
30 October 2002
BUZZ SET FOR MASSIVE EXPANSION IN THE UK AND EUROPE
New bases and fleet for UK’s third largest low cost airline
buzz, the UK’s third largest low-cost airline, has announced aggressive expansion plans that include rolling out three new bases in the UK and Europe. The first new UK base will be Bournemouth Airport and flights will commence from March 2003 with seats on sale this Autumn. A second new UK base and a mainland Europe base will follow by the end of 2003. In addition, the airline’s seat capacity will increase by over 50% by the end of 2003 as the carrier replaces its current BAe 146 aircraft with larger 737-300 aircraft.
Speaking at KLM’s Investors Day in Amsterdam this morning, Floris J van Pallandt, CEO, buzz, said, "We have an unswerving commitment to developing the low cost market through implementing an ambitious growth strategy thus capitalising on the dramatic upsurge in consumer demand for low cost travel which has seen the dynamic of the industry change dramatically in the last six months. Coupled with an evolving business model, consistent year on year growth and 30% increase in passenger volume this year, we are well poised to continue our position as one of the leading low cost carriers in Europe."
Today’s announcement also sees buzz de-merge from KLM uk from 1 November 2002. buzz will then operate as its own fully fledged limited company within the KLM Group.
The deal with buzz is Bournemouth Airport's largest ever and will see over 200 jobs created as a direct result of the carrier’s intention to base two of its aircraft at the airport initially. buzz estimates that it will put 750,000 seats into the market from Bournemouth in its first year, through a selection of European routes.
Tony Camacho, Chief Commercial Officer of buzz, said "We have been courted by a number of UK airports but ultimately we felt that Bournemouth had the strongest offering. We believe that it’s a superb regional base for us to grow the South Coast market and offer flyers a welcome alternative to London Gatwick. Bournemouth is already the UK’s fastest growing airport and is therefore ideally suited to become another low-cost, stress-free gateway to Europe."
buzz is the UK’s third largest low cost operator and is the second largest low cost carrier in France and Germany. buzz currently flies 24 routes in Europe in France, Germany and Spain. Last year the airline carried 1.4 million passengers. By the end of 2002 buzz predicts it will carry 1.8 million flyers with 86% of bookings coming via the internet.
Be among the first to be notified of our new destinations from Bournemouth Airport by joining our Bournemouth buzz mail group.
Just enter your email address here
For full details on Bournemouth Airport see www.flybournemouth.com.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Otterman, a little update for you. The ballot papers arrived at members homes today. Yes, it could be a good move for all concerned, the expansion of buzz. What the pilots are asking for is to be able to keep the right of transfer between the two halves of what was once the one company, to allow everyone to end up with the career they want. As of now, transfer yellow to blue is blocked, and transfer blue to yellow looks like requiring the sacrifice of all pay and pension increments. They have (had) a very loyal and hard-working pilot force, a little common sense and compromise and they could still have, to enable the expansion to go ahead, to everyone's benefit. Incidentally, the information given to the staff does not feature the 30-40 aircraft you found on your news site, we only have the information Aviation Trainer Two posted.