easyJet Morale Rock Bottom
Join Date: Jan 2001
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little friend,
May be the rostering issue should be incorporated in the new discussions going on at the moment.
Plus obviously further share options within the company following the model of SOUTHWEST.
May be the rostering issue should be incorporated in the new discussions going on at the moment.
Plus obviously further share options within the company following the model of SOUTHWEST.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Little Friend it isn't theory
It is as simple as getting off your fat butts and doing something about the problems YOU have.
No one else will solve them for you so if you want them fixed the first step is to realistically define your relationship with your employer. When you finally realize that they are just suits with money and that they will trade it for your skills then and only then will you start to get a better deal for your work, and not just money but a whole raft of issues that define your working lives as pilots. Crew Food, Basings, Career Progression, ROSTERING, Loss of Licence Isnsurance, Medical care and costs etc etc etc. So bloody well ask for and be prepared to haggle for it!
Now is your chance and it won't come again.. eJ is at a crux, a merger is a delicate time and after it is completed you will be treated worse than ever so NOW is the time to act! Miss this chance and it won't come again I assure you.
Join your Union and be guided by their advice, support your reps by joining BALPA and give them the strength of position they need to act on your behalf. Also tell them what you want!
Again I stress to you all
Take control over your own lives! Stop letting faceless managers ruin your lives, just refuse to accept the crap they are feeding you!
Huff and Puff as Little Friend puts it is why you are where you are.
It is time for something a little more substantial. eJ is realizing that prosective new employees are not accepting offered positions and they are wondering why.. tell them and take advantage of it!
Little Friend I am afraid I disagree with you on your last statement
The answer is not to go somewhere else because it won'tbe any better there, the answer my friend is that these jobs are OUR jobs and we have a right to them and a fair go. Putting your tail between your legs and sloping off to Ryan Air or somewhere else only empowers those who will screw you and you family for the sake of an extra ppenny in their pockets.
Note for RDW, WHP, JP, no sig and the rest of the 'Top40 with their 10 Million' et al:
If you think it is cheap to **** your employees off by being a miserly corporate tightwad that sucks people dry and burns them out then just see how much it costs to have pissed off employees that hang around and will fight you toe to toe for a fair deal.
To all shareholders and the Board of eJ, read this and take note. You may also ask yourself why am I posting this at some unGodly hour when you are all snug in your beds at home? Because I have just finished 6 long hard days/nights work for a company with absolutely no regard whatsoever for my circadian rythym, my time with my family, mental wellbeing, stress level or anything else that goes hand in hand with making even a minor effort to consider your people as humans instead of just another tool or machine to be abused until it breaks.
No one else will solve them for you so if you want them fixed the first step is to realistically define your relationship with your employer. When you finally realize that they are just suits with money and that they will trade it for your skills then and only then will you start to get a better deal for your work, and not just money but a whole raft of issues that define your working lives as pilots. Crew Food, Basings, Career Progression, ROSTERING, Loss of Licence Isnsurance, Medical care and costs etc etc etc. So bloody well ask for and be prepared to haggle for it!
Now is your chance and it won't come again.. eJ is at a crux, a merger is a delicate time and after it is completed you will be treated worse than ever so NOW is the time to act! Miss this chance and it won't come again I assure you.
Join your Union and be guided by their advice, support your reps by joining BALPA and give them the strength of position they need to act on your behalf. Also tell them what you want!
Again I stress to you all
Take control over your own lives! Stop letting faceless managers ruin your lives, just refuse to accept the crap they are feeding you!
Huff and Puff as Little Friend puts it is why you are where you are.
It is time for something a little more substantial. eJ is realizing that prosective new employees are not accepting offered positions and they are wondering why.. tell them and take advantage of it!
Little Friend I am afraid I disagree with you on your last statement
The answer is not to go somewhere else because it won'tbe any better there, the answer my friend is that these jobs are OUR jobs and we have a right to them and a fair go. Putting your tail between your legs and sloping off to Ryan Air or somewhere else only empowers those who will screw you and you family for the sake of an extra ppenny in their pockets.
Note for RDW, WHP, JP, no sig and the rest of the 'Top40 with their 10 Million' et al:
If you think it is cheap to **** your employees off by being a miserly corporate tightwad that sucks people dry and burns them out then just see how much it costs to have pissed off employees that hang around and will fight you toe to toe for a fair deal.
To all shareholders and the Board of eJ, read this and take note. You may also ask yourself why am I posting this at some unGodly hour when you are all snug in your beds at home? Because I have just finished 6 long hard days/nights work for a company with absolutely no regard whatsoever for my circadian rythym, my time with my family, mental wellbeing, stress level or anything else that goes hand in hand with making even a minor effort to consider your people as humans instead of just another tool or machine to be abused until it breaks.
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Hi Fish,
I have just received email to go on SBY for interview with EK. I have survived three and half years with EJ but am running out of steam. I can't see anything changing at EJ re lifestyle so am giving the possible move to Dubai serious consideration. I'll be giving up eight years of command but I'm starting to think that is a small price to pay. Could you email me or post here with your thoughts on making the move. Would welcome the opportunity to ask a few questions. Regards workerant.
NTE,
Great post and I couldn't agree more but deep down you and I know that EJ management will never let the crews prosper unless there is a change at the very top. A sad fact.
I have just received email to go on SBY for interview with EK. I have survived three and half years with EJ but am running out of steam. I can't see anything changing at EJ re lifestyle so am giving the possible move to Dubai serious consideration. I'll be giving up eight years of command but I'm starting to think that is a small price to pay. Could you email me or post here with your thoughts on making the move. Would welcome the opportunity to ask a few questions. Regards workerant.
NTE,
Great post and I couldn't agree more but deep down you and I know that EJ management will never let the crews prosper unless there is a change at the very top. A sad fact.
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I'll say it again slowly
Workerant you still miss the point so I will repost it.
REPOST:
Little Friend I am afraid I disagree with you on your last statement
The answer is not to go somewhere else because it won'tbe any better there, the answer my friend is that these jobs are OUR jobs and we have a right to them and a fair go. Putting your tail between your legs and sloping off to Ryan Air or somewhere else only empowers those who will screw you and you family for the sake of an extra ppenny in their pockets.
END REPOST
What this is saying is that it doesn't matter where you go it will be the same. The managers at Ryan Air won't be any different, nor are they any different anywhere in the world bar SW. Our pay packets and T&C are the result of much hard work and angst by and for pilots in years before. We have squandered those benefits through complacency and under the 'benevolent hand' of the 'faceless suits' who regard you as an expense item the cost of which is to be absolutely minimised, with their 'gotta get leaner' crap while they stuff their snouts in the trough. Do you really undertsand that easyJet managment have given themselves the equivalent of a BRAND NEW HOUSE ABSOLUTEY FREE. So if you want to ever improve your position then YOU are the only one who will do it, they are well ahead of you. You put easyJet where it is today, you have a right to a fair share of the spoils yet you are struggling to get a payrise that meets inflation!
So stop the whinging and get onto BALPA and the PC. Tell them what you want in no uncertain terms.. or is it that you don't really know what you want? Is that the problem? Then have a jolly good think about it, discuss it with your colleagues, write it down and then say clearly to your reps what your demands are. They will pass this to BALPA and then THEY provide the means both legal and representational to achieve our goals under the direction of the PC. The PC gives direction to BALPA but it is BALPAs job to get what we want. They have highly trained people and negotiators and should be dealing at an executive level with easyJet, not mere go betweens without any authority.
Make no bones about it, BALPA is a servcie we all pay for and we are not getting it. An eJ Captain is paying BALPA in the region of 600quid a year so at the moment we are being ripped off by both easyJet and BALPA. Question is what are you going to do about it? Leave BALPA and then just get screwed by easyJet or perhaps leave both and get screwed by Ryan Air or BMI or someone else? Not much improvement in that is there.. or do you do what you know you should, stay put and demand some value for your money and your skills from both of them!
As so called professionals you know we are laughed at by Doctors, Lawyers, Judges and the like. They are all solid members of their professional associations. They pay them considerable amounts of money to negotiate and improve their T&C. They don't hesitate to scream blue murder and place companies and the public at great inconvenience to get what they want, yet they are well paid and respected professions.. why aren't we amongst them?
BALPAs role is nevertheless the same, to protect striking workers, provide assistance and representation in case of accident or unfortunate happening, negotiate pay deals and other important issues such as ROSTERING, rest and relaxtion times, cooperate with other Pilot Bodies having input to legislation and the future of our industry etc etc etc. These are all the things we pay for, ask yourself are we getting them and if not why not.
While we are contemplating our navels in this inward looking moment also ask yourself why drivers of HGVs cannot drive longer than 8 hours without an hour away from the controls for a meal and a break and yet as pilots of large flying bombs we regularly work longer than 12 hour duty periods with no coffee/cigarette, rest or meal breaks. Hell you can't even get out of your seat to go for a walk outside in the fresh air to wake up a bit! Add that to 60hr a week rosters that take you in out and out wild variations of sleep cycle and regular rest periods and you understand why we are sleeping at the controls. Hopefully in turns.
We are called short haul pilots yet an ATH at about 7.5 hours stick time and an ELEVEN HOUR DUTY DAY is about the same as most 2 pilot long haul operators. On a 12 or 14 hour 'heavy crewed' flight (all in a single sector) most crew get 5-6 hours sleep! And yet we at easyJet do this day in day out.. a 'long haul' crew will do a single sector and then have 24hrs off. We will do a 4 sector day or night, get minimum rest and then get up to do it again! I don't give a tinkers cuss if it is legal or not and nor should you. Look at what is safe and whats more what is reasonable!
Do you really think your arousal level, attention span and flying skill is up to the level expected, nay demanded, of us by the time we get to the end of a killer day? Try 2 or 3 consecutive Luton-Athens-Luton starting work at 2200 local and not finishing work until after 0900 local next day. Or how about an Luton-Aberdeen-Luton-Nice-Luton after 3 early starts getting up around 0400 or earlier and then followed by night Palma or Malaga for a couple of days! We regularly do 4 sectors in a day, more than most long haul pilots do in a week or two!
What do the public think of this? Doctors tell us that after 8 hours fo duty our levels are about the same as if you have just had a pint. Does the public know this, both those in the aeroplane and those under where we fly? Would they be happy that the pair at the front about to land in crap weather and having made fuel and other critical decisions are so tired all the want to do is get into bed and sleep for a week?
So I say to you again, it is up to you. Each and every one of you. Take a good hard look at yourself, your life at home and at work as it is and what it should be as respected professionals and members of society.
Stand up for what is right, you don't need to lead the charge over the top, just start asserting your right to a fair and reasonable working life. Join BALPA and support your PC, watch them like a hawk, speak up and give them direction when needed. Be reasonable in your demands but don't accept less than what is reasonable and don't accept the tosh that you will be fed my eayJet management with a barrow to push, it is their own and it is hard to push because it is FULL OF MONEY! .
REPOST:
Little Friend I am afraid I disagree with you on your last statement
The answer is not to go somewhere else because it won'tbe any better there, the answer my friend is that these jobs are OUR jobs and we have a right to them and a fair go. Putting your tail between your legs and sloping off to Ryan Air or somewhere else only empowers those who will screw you and you family for the sake of an extra ppenny in their pockets.
END REPOST
What this is saying is that it doesn't matter where you go it will be the same. The managers at Ryan Air won't be any different, nor are they any different anywhere in the world bar SW. Our pay packets and T&C are the result of much hard work and angst by and for pilots in years before. We have squandered those benefits through complacency and under the 'benevolent hand' of the 'faceless suits' who regard you as an expense item the cost of which is to be absolutely minimised, with their 'gotta get leaner' crap while they stuff their snouts in the trough. Do you really undertsand that easyJet managment have given themselves the equivalent of a BRAND NEW HOUSE ABSOLUTEY FREE. So if you want to ever improve your position then YOU are the only one who will do it, they are well ahead of you. You put easyJet where it is today, you have a right to a fair share of the spoils yet you are struggling to get a payrise that meets inflation!
So stop the whinging and get onto BALPA and the PC. Tell them what you want in no uncertain terms.. or is it that you don't really know what you want? Is that the problem? Then have a jolly good think about it, discuss it with your colleagues, write it down and then say clearly to your reps what your demands are. They will pass this to BALPA and then THEY provide the means both legal and representational to achieve our goals under the direction of the PC. The PC gives direction to BALPA but it is BALPAs job to get what we want. They have highly trained people and negotiators and should be dealing at an executive level with easyJet, not mere go betweens without any authority.
Make no bones about it, BALPA is a servcie we all pay for and we are not getting it. An eJ Captain is paying BALPA in the region of 600quid a year so at the moment we are being ripped off by both easyJet and BALPA. Question is what are you going to do about it? Leave BALPA and then just get screwed by easyJet or perhaps leave both and get screwed by Ryan Air or BMI or someone else? Not much improvement in that is there.. or do you do what you know you should, stay put and demand some value for your money and your skills from both of them!
As so called professionals you know we are laughed at by Doctors, Lawyers, Judges and the like. They are all solid members of their professional associations. They pay them considerable amounts of money to negotiate and improve their T&C. They don't hesitate to scream blue murder and place companies and the public at great inconvenience to get what they want, yet they are well paid and respected professions.. why aren't we amongst them?
BALPAs role is nevertheless the same, to protect striking workers, provide assistance and representation in case of accident or unfortunate happening, negotiate pay deals and other important issues such as ROSTERING, rest and relaxtion times, cooperate with other Pilot Bodies having input to legislation and the future of our industry etc etc etc. These are all the things we pay for, ask yourself are we getting them and if not why not.
While we are contemplating our navels in this inward looking moment also ask yourself why drivers of HGVs cannot drive longer than 8 hours without an hour away from the controls for a meal and a break and yet as pilots of large flying bombs we regularly work longer than 12 hour duty periods with no coffee/cigarette, rest or meal breaks. Hell you can't even get out of your seat to go for a walk outside in the fresh air to wake up a bit! Add that to 60hr a week rosters that take you in out and out wild variations of sleep cycle and regular rest periods and you understand why we are sleeping at the controls. Hopefully in turns.
We are called short haul pilots yet an ATH at about 7.5 hours stick time and an ELEVEN HOUR DUTY DAY is about the same as most 2 pilot long haul operators. On a 12 or 14 hour 'heavy crewed' flight (all in a single sector) most crew get 5-6 hours sleep! And yet we at easyJet do this day in day out.. a 'long haul' crew will do a single sector and then have 24hrs off. We will do a 4 sector day or night, get minimum rest and then get up to do it again! I don't give a tinkers cuss if it is legal or not and nor should you. Look at what is safe and whats more what is reasonable!
Do you really think your arousal level, attention span and flying skill is up to the level expected, nay demanded, of us by the time we get to the end of a killer day? Try 2 or 3 consecutive Luton-Athens-Luton starting work at 2200 local and not finishing work until after 0900 local next day. Or how about an Luton-Aberdeen-Luton-Nice-Luton after 3 early starts getting up around 0400 or earlier and then followed by night Palma or Malaga for a couple of days! We regularly do 4 sectors in a day, more than most long haul pilots do in a week or two!
What do the public think of this? Doctors tell us that after 8 hours fo duty our levels are about the same as if you have just had a pint. Does the public know this, both those in the aeroplane and those under where we fly? Would they be happy that the pair at the front about to land in crap weather and having made fuel and other critical decisions are so tired all the want to do is get into bed and sleep for a week?
So I say to you again, it is up to you. Each and every one of you. Take a good hard look at yourself, your life at home and at work as it is and what it should be as respected professionals and members of society.
Stand up for what is right, you don't need to lead the charge over the top, just start asserting your right to a fair and reasonable working life. Join BALPA and support your PC, watch them like a hawk, speak up and give them direction when needed. Be reasonable in your demands but don't accept less than what is reasonable and don't accept the tosh that you will be fed my eayJet management with a barrow to push, it is their own and it is hard to push because it is FULL OF MONEY! .
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That was the month that was:
Flew 94 hours in the last 28 days (SERIOUSLY knackered)
Marriage on the rocks since joining easyJet due to lifestyle and roster (shame after so many years)
Crewing cancelled a days flying because I was out of hours (then contacted me later just after a duty to ask me to fly on the day in question - said I didn't have to if I didn't want to (eh?) - I said NO THANKS (because I had just done yet another 11+ hour day and was rather tired!!! - which is why I was taken off flying in the first place)
Went 'sick' one day (first and only time ever). Just TOO TIRED to operate the aircraft safely in my opinion.
The future's bright: Either easyJet terms and conditions improve (how likely is that?!) or I leave - either way things will improve immeasurably!!!
In summary my time at easyjet can be summed up by smilies:
Flew 94 hours in the last 28 days (SERIOUSLY knackered)
Marriage on the rocks since joining easyJet due to lifestyle and roster (shame after so many years)
Crewing cancelled a days flying because I was out of hours (then contacted me later just after a duty to ask me to fly on the day in question - said I didn't have to if I didn't want to (eh?) - I said NO THANKS (because I had just done yet another 11+ hour day and was rather tired!!! - which is why I was taken off flying in the first place)
Went 'sick' one day (first and only time ever). Just TOO TIRED to operate the aircraft safely in my opinion.
The future's bright: Either easyJet terms and conditions improve (how likely is that?!) or I leave - either way things will improve immeasurably!!!
In summary my time at easyjet can be summed up by smilies:
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Fish,
Have sent you a message.
NTE,
I couldn't agree with you more, the message is loud and clear. If I pass the EK interview I can at least increase my salary by £600! However, up until the time that I do leave, I will most certainly give BALPA my support and have done so already. As Spanner has pointed out the 6/7 on 2 off is clearly too much and is a safety issue that should be the first EJ rostering practice to be rectified by our new rostering guru from GO. I just hope my health hasn't gone down the pan to such an extent that I fail the EK medical
Have sent you a message.
NTE,
I couldn't agree with you more, the message is loud and clear. If I pass the EK interview I can at least increase my salary by £600! However, up until the time that I do leave, I will most certainly give BALPA my support and have done so already. As Spanner has pointed out the 6/7 on 2 off is clearly too much and is a safety issue that should be the first EJ rostering practice to be rectified by our new rostering guru from GO. I just hope my health hasn't gone down the pan to such an extent that I fail the EK medical
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No Bull
Few if any of the Balpa Council even read this forum, so what percentage of the line pilots do so? We somehow need to communicate with a lot more people to get any messages/ideas across. Let's see if we really can walk the walk.
I'm up for a fight because I agree and totally sympathise with spanner above, we have nothing to lose!
Few if any of the Balpa Council even read this forum, so what percentage of the line pilots do so? We somehow need to communicate with a lot more people to get any messages/ideas across. Let's see if we really can walk the walk.
I'm up for a fight because I agree and totally sympathise with spanner above, we have nothing to lose!
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Nils Taurus Excretus - you forgot to mention the new six sector day that's rostered to within 25 mins of max fdp. Add a slot delay at either BFS, LTN, LPL or AMS plus 20 min. turnarounds at three of those airports and then min. rest followed by the same the next day.
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I agree with all preceeding comments. I am currently doing my third duty period of 7 on 2 off, over a 4 week duty period.
That means when I finish this duty week I will have had 2 days off out of a total of 16 days, or 5 days off out of a total of 25.
Since this "6 on 3 off" pattern started in April I have worked 10 lots of 7 on 2 off. That is 3 months out of the last 6 months.
This is not a moan. I am stating the facts for all to see including the CAA and the fare paying passengers. Easyjet are doing this because they can, and no doubt other companies do the same though hopefully on a smaller scale.
P.S I lied this is a moan!
That means when I finish this duty week I will have had 2 days off out of a total of 16 days, or 5 days off out of a total of 25.
Since this "6 on 3 off" pattern started in April I have worked 10 lots of 7 on 2 off. That is 3 months out of the last 6 months.
This is not a moan. I am stating the facts for all to see including the CAA and the fare paying passengers. Easyjet are doing this because they can, and no doubt other companies do the same though hopefully on a smaller scale.
P.S I lied this is a moan!
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10 sectors in October 7 stand-bys (no-one called).
It would be great if THEY could even things out a bit.
Hope November will be a bit better (her indoors keeps finding things for me to do!)
It would be great if THEY could even things out a bit.
Hope November will be a bit better (her indoors keeps finding things for me to do!)
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N T E has the point exactly. Now is not the time to be running elsewhere but standin up for ourselves. For too long airline managements have had us pitted against each other scrambling for jobs, promotions etc whilst they have been eroding our T&C's and pay during the tough times and then just making the minimum effort to keep up in the good.
They can easily replace us as we leave in a trickle (and let's face it - a mass resignation is hardly likely!). However staying put and taking action is the one thing that they can't cope with. They can't replace everyone on a temporary basis (how?) and long term action would be terminal for the business.
Now some might say that this is doing ourselves out of a job - but let's just remember who's snouts are the deepest in the trough here. They would rather share a portion with us than lose it altogether.
It is time to make a stand :o
They can easily replace us as we leave in a trickle (and let's face it - a mass resignation is hardly likely!). However staying put and taking action is the one thing that they can't cope with. They can't replace everyone on a temporary basis (how?) and long term action would be terminal for the business.
Now some might say that this is doing ourselves out of a job - but let's just remember who's snouts are the deepest in the trough here. They would rather share a portion with us than lose it altogether.
It is time to make a stand :o
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I read the post from The Grim Reaper and could have sworn at that precise moment a pig flew past my window!
The only realistic option available is that a vote is taken on the 'pay deal' whenever it is put forward and we instruct the BALPA reps to pass the result of any such ballot on to management. Management will then say that the ballot is of interest and thank the PC for their efforts. Unfortunately the pilots' council will be informed that after long deliberation no further funds are available for an enhanced pay settlement. Morale will remain low and pilots will leave in dribs and drabs - I think the term for this situation is 'Status Quo'. Why will this occur - because at the end of the day people will accept their lot and moan rather than take action and risk discrimination, by being branded as an 'awkward' employee (with the attendant problems with promotion etc - it has happened to people already who, for various reasons, have not toed the company line). easyJet, as a corporation, is no different to any other in this respect. We have to accept that the 'glory' days when easyJet was first brought into being have passed into history.
What is my position? My position is as it has always been with employers - I either like the job or I leave. No point moaning and no point relying on colleagues who spend their time trying to rally the troops because at the end of the day the 'troops' have families to feed and are not brave enough or committed enough for a bloody battle with management. This is the reason that management will always succeed - they are the brave ones who will take risks and the employees are the 'cannon fodder' who sit back and moan in the pub over a pint.
I suggest you let the pilots' council 'negotiate' a deal that is probably already struck, sit back and take the consequences.
... alternatively we could all refuse to accept the revised terms and conditions of contract and resign en masse. Not a strike of course, just non acceptance of our revised contract of employment. A contract of employment is like most other contracts - an agreement between two or more parties. If one party does not agree to an amendment to the contract, then the contract will be determined. Imagine the possibility of ALL easyJet operations ceasing over night until management negotiated acceptable terms and conditions for their employees.
Yes, I was right, another pig has just flown past my window!
PS Oh, I forgot to ask - what action does The Grim Reaper propose we take, do we line the management up against the wall in the "Orangerie" and throw custard pies at them until they give in to our demands. Wake up boys this is the real world.
The only realistic option available is that a vote is taken on the 'pay deal' whenever it is put forward and we instruct the BALPA reps to pass the result of any such ballot on to management. Management will then say that the ballot is of interest and thank the PC for their efforts. Unfortunately the pilots' council will be informed that after long deliberation no further funds are available for an enhanced pay settlement. Morale will remain low and pilots will leave in dribs and drabs - I think the term for this situation is 'Status Quo'. Why will this occur - because at the end of the day people will accept their lot and moan rather than take action and risk discrimination, by being branded as an 'awkward' employee (with the attendant problems with promotion etc - it has happened to people already who, for various reasons, have not toed the company line). easyJet, as a corporation, is no different to any other in this respect. We have to accept that the 'glory' days when easyJet was first brought into being have passed into history.
What is my position? My position is as it has always been with employers - I either like the job or I leave. No point moaning and no point relying on colleagues who spend their time trying to rally the troops because at the end of the day the 'troops' have families to feed and are not brave enough or committed enough for a bloody battle with management. This is the reason that management will always succeed - they are the brave ones who will take risks and the employees are the 'cannon fodder' who sit back and moan in the pub over a pint.
I suggest you let the pilots' council 'negotiate' a deal that is probably already struck, sit back and take the consequences.
... alternatively we could all refuse to accept the revised terms and conditions of contract and resign en masse. Not a strike of course, just non acceptance of our revised contract of employment. A contract of employment is like most other contracts - an agreement between two or more parties. If one party does not agree to an amendment to the contract, then the contract will be determined. Imagine the possibility of ALL easyJet operations ceasing over night until management negotiated acceptable terms and conditions for their employees.
Yes, I was right, another pig has just flown past my window!
PS Oh, I forgot to ask - what action does The Grim Reaper propose we take, do we line the management up against the wall in the "Orangerie" and throw custard pies at them until they give in to our demands. Wake up boys this is the real world.
Last edited by SpannerInTheWerks; 22nd Oct 2002 at 09:07.
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So lets think smart and get organised, what do we really want?
This is a crtical time for easyJet and particularly the employees of eJ.
Do not be hoodwinked by eJ management negotiating techniques.. there is very little if any negotiation involved.
They want to push their offer and just haggle a little on a few points. That offer fails to address MANY critical points of T&C.
So I shout to the Pilot Council
"REJECT THE OFFER OUTRIGHT!
Discredit it to the Pilots and stop this 'secrecy' crap! It is a device of the companies to destabilize you and erode your support. It is a well known and highly successful strategy if you allow it to continue, so next meeting when JP or some other robot of RDW says "this is confidential and not be released to anyone" tell him to take a walk.. you WILL do your duty and report all meetings prompty and accurately to the FULL PILOT BODY!" Stop being suckered and taken for fools. You are brave individuals to take postions of thh PC so be brave and face these manipulators down, it will get a lot uglier yet before it gets better and if you/we are weak now we have no hope of success. Your strength stands in being backed by all the Pilots, have faith that you will get that backing from the vast majority.
When you call for a strike you will get more than enough Pilots to walk to stop easyJet in its tracks!
It is our right to make demands and the company will have no option but to consider the offer WE make. So get oragnised PC.
Address the issues of:
Sector Pay
Payment for discretion instead of overnighting away (what's it worth Ray? 400 per crew member?)
Overtime at 150% of usual hourly rate
Guaranteed Flying hours per month
Payments for call ins on RD (start bidding at 400 Sterling for each person)
Payments for extra sectors (lets say 100 Sterling cash for both Capt and F/O and a further 75 each for Cabin Staff)
ROSTERING AGREEMENT no more CCPs, variations and so on handed down from on high!
Leave Allocation
Crew Food
STBY days
SENIORITY
Preferential Basings
A cash bonus similar to that which the GO pilots we given
SHARE OPTIONS to be honoured to those promised in 4SEPTEMBER fiasco
{bear in mind that these payments for Overtime, RDO Call in, Discretion and so on work both ways: they discourage teh company from asking for extra duties and when they do so they are desperate and you have an incentive to accept}
These are the kind of benefits you should recieve but they have been burnt away on the altar of the Orange Haze. Ask some of the guys from Cathay, BA and other real airlines what benefits they had and use them as a guide to what we can reasonably demand for doing exactly the same job those well looked after folks do, except we do a lot more of it and under much worse conditions.
Bring back the "Cheese platter Captain?" days and perhaps a little more respect for we pilots and our hard earned and professionally exercised skills will be forthcoming. If we don't demand respect we won't get it, we already earn it in buckets.
This sounds like a broken record but "Only by demanding equality of treatment will we regain some of the respect and professional standing we have lost to the RDWs et al of this world."
There are many more issues that need addressing as well so please reply here with the issues you want solved because if you don't tell the PC what you want then they can't say to BALPA "This is what you are to get for us as a minimum and see what else you can manage for all the thousands of pounds you are being paid by a pilot body numbering in the hundreds and before long in the thousands!
Remember a typical eJ Captain is paying BALPA subs of 600 pounds a year!
It looks like someone in New Road just might be listening as I see we now have more communication facilities at our disposal so speak up! From what I can see the following are our current 'lines of communication':
1. To contact all members of the Pilots Council and John Moore simultaneously email [email protected]
2.Go to the BALPA Website www.balpa.org (there is a specific easyJet area where recent developments and notices will be available to read and download.
3. Join the new easyJet BALPA pilots forum at www.ezboard.com, it seems it uses real names only so that might make a few company sycophants and general naysayers pull their bloody heads in.
4. Get yourself added to the easyJetBALPA Electronic Mailing List so that the PC can send you information instantly it is available.
Remember! If you fail to help yoursleves then no one else can or will
There are issues we need to urgently address and then worry about a few percent as well, actually for a company reporting record profits a number of 10% for all employees springs handily to mind.
The bottom line is that we MUST REJECT the current 'insult' as I refuse to acknowledge it as an offer of any real depth, scope or meaning.
That is all we have to do.. just say NO when it comes to talking to your reps, BALPA and finally easyJet!
Tell them you want a COMPLETE PACKAGE, easyJet wants to be a big airline paying 'suits' exorbitant amounts of gratuities {TEN MILLION POUNDS BETWEEN FORTY MANAGERS IS A LOT OF CASH}
then let them also off their employees the salaries and benefits afforded other Big Airline employees!
I just so wish Herb Kelleher would accept a role in eJ and finally sort these miserable penny pinching tightwads out and explain to them in childishly simple terms what he learnt a long time ago. By looking after your greatest asset (and I mean ALL employees) you will improve the companies profitability and expand it so much faster. RDW you might be good at business planning and penny pinchhing but when it comes to People Skills you have a lot to learn so pull your head in, get humble and if you have any questions, just ask Herb!
Do not be hoodwinked by eJ management negotiating techniques.. there is very little if any negotiation involved.
They want to push their offer and just haggle a little on a few points. That offer fails to address MANY critical points of T&C.
So I shout to the Pilot Council
"REJECT THE OFFER OUTRIGHT!
Discredit it to the Pilots and stop this 'secrecy' crap! It is a device of the companies to destabilize you and erode your support. It is a well known and highly successful strategy if you allow it to continue, so next meeting when JP or some other robot of RDW says "this is confidential and not be released to anyone" tell him to take a walk.. you WILL do your duty and report all meetings prompty and accurately to the FULL PILOT BODY!" Stop being suckered and taken for fools. You are brave individuals to take postions of thh PC so be brave and face these manipulators down, it will get a lot uglier yet before it gets better and if you/we are weak now we have no hope of success. Your strength stands in being backed by all the Pilots, have faith that you will get that backing from the vast majority.
When you call for a strike you will get more than enough Pilots to walk to stop easyJet in its tracks!
It is our right to make demands and the company will have no option but to consider the offer WE make. So get oragnised PC.
Address the issues of:
Sector Pay
Payment for discretion instead of overnighting away (what's it worth Ray? 400 per crew member?)
Overtime at 150% of usual hourly rate
Guaranteed Flying hours per month
Payments for call ins on RD (start bidding at 400 Sterling for each person)
Payments for extra sectors (lets say 100 Sterling cash for both Capt and F/O and a further 75 each for Cabin Staff)
ROSTERING AGREEMENT no more CCPs, variations and so on handed down from on high!
Leave Allocation
Crew Food
STBY days
SENIORITY
Preferential Basings
A cash bonus similar to that which the GO pilots we given
SHARE OPTIONS to be honoured to those promised in 4SEPTEMBER fiasco
{bear in mind that these payments for Overtime, RDO Call in, Discretion and so on work both ways: they discourage teh company from asking for extra duties and when they do so they are desperate and you have an incentive to accept}
These are the kind of benefits you should recieve but they have been burnt away on the altar of the Orange Haze. Ask some of the guys from Cathay, BA and other real airlines what benefits they had and use them as a guide to what we can reasonably demand for doing exactly the same job those well looked after folks do, except we do a lot more of it and under much worse conditions.
Bring back the "Cheese platter Captain?" days and perhaps a little more respect for we pilots and our hard earned and professionally exercised skills will be forthcoming. If we don't demand respect we won't get it, we already earn it in buckets.
This sounds like a broken record but "Only by demanding equality of treatment will we regain some of the respect and professional standing we have lost to the RDWs et al of this world."
There are many more issues that need addressing as well so please reply here with the issues you want solved because if you don't tell the PC what you want then they can't say to BALPA "This is what you are to get for us as a minimum and see what else you can manage for all the thousands of pounds you are being paid by a pilot body numbering in the hundreds and before long in the thousands!
Remember a typical eJ Captain is paying BALPA subs of 600 pounds a year!
It looks like someone in New Road just might be listening as I see we now have more communication facilities at our disposal so speak up! From what I can see the following are our current 'lines of communication':
1. To contact all members of the Pilots Council and John Moore simultaneously email [email protected]
2.Go to the BALPA Website www.balpa.org (there is a specific easyJet area where recent developments and notices will be available to read and download.
3. Join the new easyJet BALPA pilots forum at www.ezboard.com, it seems it uses real names only so that might make a few company sycophants and general naysayers pull their bloody heads in.
4. Get yourself added to the easyJetBALPA Electronic Mailing List so that the PC can send you information instantly it is available.
Remember! If you fail to help yoursleves then no one else can or will
There are issues we need to urgently address and then worry about a few percent as well, actually for a company reporting record profits a number of 10% for all employees springs handily to mind.
The bottom line is that we MUST REJECT the current 'insult' as I refuse to acknowledge it as an offer of any real depth, scope or meaning.
That is all we have to do.. just say NO when it comes to talking to your reps, BALPA and finally easyJet!
Tell them you want a COMPLETE PACKAGE, easyJet wants to be a big airline paying 'suits' exorbitant amounts of gratuities {TEN MILLION POUNDS BETWEEN FORTY MANAGERS IS A LOT OF CASH}
then let them also off their employees the salaries and benefits afforded other Big Airline employees!
I just so wish Herb Kelleher would accept a role in eJ and finally sort these miserable penny pinching tightwads out and explain to them in childishly simple terms what he learnt a long time ago. By looking after your greatest asset (and I mean ALL employees) you will improve the companies profitability and expand it so much faster. RDW you might be good at business planning and penny pinchhing but when it comes to People Skills you have a lot to learn so pull your head in, get humble and if you have any questions, just ask Herb!
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Payment for discretion. I appreciate it seems common for EZY Pilots to use discretion but getting paid for it suggests your living on another planet. Complete and utter no-no from the Belgrano Boys.
Seems as though some experience required in certain area's, the Go Rostering Guru will help, good reputation. He needs to be supported by the Company though, ie he might suggest more crews needed if some of these nightmare trips are split up.
Rumour on the street is EZY are trying to Headhunt more Staff, but they need to look for more Guru's as clearly the Company is too big
Payment for discretion. I appreciate it seems common for EZY Pilots to use discretion but getting paid for it suggests your living on another planet. Complete and utter no-no from the Belgrano Boys.
Seems as though some experience required in certain area's, the Go Rostering Guru will help, good reputation. He needs to be supported by the Company though, ie he might suggest more crews needed if some of these nightmare trips are split up.
Rumour on the street is EZY are trying to Headhunt more Staff, but they need to look for more Guru's as clearly the Company is too big
Really?
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You may have missed the point my friend
Anger? Hah! If I was angry I would be elsewhere as I would have no place in the cockpit, emotions are not well suited to our environment.
No Sir, I am scornful. Scornful of those who bring a once proud profession, of which I am still proud to be a reasonably competent practitioner, into such disrepute that we find ourselves in our current straits, which will not be remedied without much effort and sweat.
Be in no doubt I know exactly what you mean.. what I want is people to debate why we should or shouldn't be paid for discretion.. after all it is 'overtime' isn't it?
The concealment of the ridiculous rostering practices of easyJet management and their consequent effect on the arousal/wakefulness/attentiveness levels of operating crews need to be pierced.
Therefore here lies an opportunity:
The concept of a 'legal' duty equalling a safe duty is false, patently so in light of the abuses of the 'guidelines' of CAP 371 by easyJet and other unscrupulous operators who flaunt the spirit in which these texts are written in the pursuit of profit.
Perhaps these issues need a far more public airing. If you look just a little deeper at easyJet, the problems are not one of pay but of professional conduct (notof teh crews I am happy to say)which is of direct concern to the paying and travelling public. Corporate liabilty is very real and will without doubt soon be tested.
May I also take this opportunity to humbly suggest that remembering the caveat of PPRuNe is timely and at all times well counselled
No Sir, I am scornful. Scornful of those who bring a once proud profession, of which I am still proud to be a reasonably competent practitioner, into such disrepute that we find ourselves in our current straits, which will not be remedied without much effort and sweat.
Be in no doubt I know exactly what you mean.. what I want is people to debate why we should or shouldn't be paid for discretion.. after all it is 'overtime' isn't it?
The concealment of the ridiculous rostering practices of easyJet management and their consequent effect on the arousal/wakefulness/attentiveness levels of operating crews need to be pierced.
Therefore here lies an opportunity:
The concept of a 'legal' duty equalling a safe duty is false, patently so in light of the abuses of the 'guidelines' of CAP 371 by easyJet and other unscrupulous operators who flaunt the spirit in which these texts are written in the pursuit of profit.
Perhaps these issues need a far more public airing. If you look just a little deeper at easyJet, the problems are not one of pay but of professional conduct (notof teh crews I am happy to say)which is of direct concern to the paying and travelling public. Corporate liabilty is very real and will without doubt soon be tested.
May I also take this opportunity to humbly suggest that remembering the caveat of PPRuNe is timely and at all times well counselled