CitiExpress Base at Gatwick
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So what's the latest with those CityFlyer RJ's? Where are they going and more importantly when? I heard that they were going to Manchester and Birmingham in August and September - but it doesn't seem to have happened... Is it BALPA's dealings that are standing in the way and if so are they close to completion? Are all of the 73's initially at Manchester going South?
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CFE, a small airline run out of portacabins which managed to make more of a profit than the whole of BA. Unfortunately we have to work with these idiots at LGW. The ones from LHR are even bigger idiots. The ones from Waterside make village idiots seem positively intellectual.
So, in conclusion, don't let anyone from BA near your company, especially management types. Hopefully, LGW will be able to break free of BA at some point, I don't mind under which banner as long as it's not BA led.
GB is a well run profitable company with the right attitude. Don't let BA make a mess of this too.
Harry
p.s. Once BA mismanage SH to a standstill they can then concentrate on making LH unprofitable too. Not sure if ANY BA routes are currently profitable. The wheel does OK.
So, in conclusion, don't let anyone from BA near your company, especially management types. Hopefully, LGW will be able to break free of BA at some point, I don't mind under which banner as long as it's not BA led.
GB is a well run profitable company with the right attitude. Don't let BA make a mess of this too.
Harry
p.s. Once BA mismanage SH to a standstill they can then concentrate on making LH unprofitable too. Not sure if ANY BA routes are currently profitable. The wheel does OK.
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Grease Weasel - 2 RJs Flying in MAN now, 1st RJ arrives in BHX on the 1st OCT, when its all complete no more 73s in MAN or 319s at BHX. Delay - Engineering causing a problem at the moment as the BHX based 319 engineers (quite rightly) dont want to be moved to London but the company is refusing to re train them on the RJ. Seems a common management misconception to me - people will just 'up sticks' and move at the drop of a hat.
Second point - SCOPE will preclude the BACX base at LGW as it will not allow any Jet flying from London Airports by folk not on the BA seniority list.
Second point - SCOPE will preclude the BACX base at LGW as it will not allow any Jet flying from London Airports by folk not on the BA seniority list.
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Atropos and others,
Don't keep coming back to aircrew and their salaries as the issue......we all know that the 'mismanagement' is not particularly one of Flight Ops.
Just look at the handling costs and inefficiencies in the North Terminal......you are paying 3x what you could get with a dedicated handling team in the South Terminal, but is the handling in the north any better....no way!!
BA have pulled out much of the longhaul, but not really stripped away the same proportion of Club Lounges or office space....so short-haul is now presumably saddled with an even higher proportion of these costs than it was in the past.
No-one is saying CFE was perfect, and I have no doubt salaries would have risen as aircraft size increased.....just remember it started with small turboprops which do not have the same earning power as a 737, but still need two drivers at the pointy end. However, the turboprop fleet was reducing, the RJ fleet was increasing, so inevitably salaries would have risen with market forces.
It may have been run "out of portacabins" but it was the people who made it successful......a management team who were focussed and knew the LGW short-haul market. Not many of those in BA.
Ask the ex-CFE employees where they would rather be right now in these uncertain times and I bet the majority would like to turn the clock back.
It's too late for that now, but for god's sake don't let BA drag down any other good companies such as GB. (Incidentally, another successful company which like CFE was managed from knackered old offices next to a sewage farm.....it must be something in the air?!)
Don't keep coming back to aircrew and their salaries as the issue......we all know that the 'mismanagement' is not particularly one of Flight Ops.
Just look at the handling costs and inefficiencies in the North Terminal......you are paying 3x what you could get with a dedicated handling team in the South Terminal, but is the handling in the north any better....no way!!
BA have pulled out much of the longhaul, but not really stripped away the same proportion of Club Lounges or office space....so short-haul is now presumably saddled with an even higher proportion of these costs than it was in the past.
No-one is saying CFE was perfect, and I have no doubt salaries would have risen as aircraft size increased.....just remember it started with small turboprops which do not have the same earning power as a 737, but still need two drivers at the pointy end. However, the turboprop fleet was reducing, the RJ fleet was increasing, so inevitably salaries would have risen with market forces.
It may have been run "out of portacabins" but it was the people who made it successful......a management team who were focussed and knew the LGW short-haul market. Not many of those in BA.
Ask the ex-CFE employees where they would rather be right now in these uncertain times and I bet the majority would like to turn the clock back.
It's too late for that now, but for god's sake don't let BA drag down any other good companies such as GB. (Incidentally, another successful company which like CFE was managed from knackered old offices next to a sewage farm.....it must be something in the air?!)
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I know what the ex-CFE people would like 'cos I'm married to one of 'em! That's given the game away!
The real problem at BA as several correspondents have quite rightly pointed out is that the company management structure is shot. The ideal scenario is to end up with BA pay and flat efficient management like CFE, however with a large helping of understanding thrown in. As I understand it RE has publicly stated that he wants to move faster to this goal but the company's inertia is preventing him. Now what that means is open to interpretation. I think it means that the management team and the board are preventing him because they are scared of the power groups in the airline, i.e. the cabin crew and customer services under Mike Street. The sooner all the old guard of BA's days are turfed out the better.
How you take on the CC unions and get rid of the demarkation on the ground is also open to discussion but BA are paying for their intransigence in the good times when all this should have been done. The ostriches just seem to be pushing their heads further into the ground rather than taking stock and acting. Re says he has contingencies in place that will allow us to survive any new Gulf War. I would argue that is the least of our worries. This company needs to be sorted out now, RE is a centralist who wants everything under his control, that is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. We need to get away from the empire building, the political in fighting and start with one goal which we can achieve-survival!
The real problem at BA as several correspondents have quite rightly pointed out is that the company management structure is shot. The ideal scenario is to end up with BA pay and flat efficient management like CFE, however with a large helping of understanding thrown in. As I understand it RE has publicly stated that he wants to move faster to this goal but the company's inertia is preventing him. Now what that means is open to interpretation. I think it means that the management team and the board are preventing him because they are scared of the power groups in the airline, i.e. the cabin crew and customer services under Mike Street. The sooner all the old guard of BA's days are turfed out the better.
How you take on the CC unions and get rid of the demarkation on the ground is also open to discussion but BA are paying for their intransigence in the good times when all this should have been done. The ostriches just seem to be pushing their heads further into the ground rather than taking stock and acting. Re says he has contingencies in place that will allow us to survive any new Gulf War. I would argue that is the least of our worries. This company needs to be sorted out now, RE is a centralist who wants everything under his control, that is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. We need to get away from the empire building, the political in fighting and start with one goal which we can achieve-survival!
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R. Don
On one hand (Mainline BA) you have a high cost company that is costing an arm and a leg to run, allowances, salary, pensions, transport [from crewroom/aircraft] etc.etc.etc.
Allowances/salary - much the same thing. How many FOs at Go/Easy are on £19K? None, Id guess. Factor in allowances and then a BA FO is starting to make comparable cash.
Pensions - Pensionable pay of £19K? That'll really break the bank compared to DC contributions on a £30K+ salary.
Transport - obviously never flown out of LHR. What do you expect us to do, cycle around the airport? Its not our fault the bus drivers won't carry pax in both directions or allow us to use the same transport as cabin crew.
Anyway, lets not forget that last year the highest earning BACE jet pilot made around £70K, with jet FOs earning considerably more than £21K. Not that great a difference in many respects, particularly given the difference in aircraft size. You may think BACE could take over shorthaul, but where are you going to find 737 drivers on the open market willing to work for £21K and £21 per night when they're away 12 nights each month?
On one hand (Mainline BA) you have a high cost company that is costing an arm and a leg to run, allowances, salary, pensions, transport [from crewroom/aircraft] etc.etc.etc.
Allowances/salary - much the same thing. How many FOs at Go/Easy are on £19K? None, Id guess. Factor in allowances and then a BA FO is starting to make comparable cash.
Pensions - Pensionable pay of £19K? That'll really break the bank compared to DC contributions on a £30K+ salary.
Transport - obviously never flown out of LHR. What do you expect us to do, cycle around the airport? Its not our fault the bus drivers won't carry pax in both directions or allow us to use the same transport as cabin crew.
Anyway, lets not forget that last year the highest earning BACE jet pilot made around £70K, with jet FOs earning considerably more than £21K. Not that great a difference in many respects, particularly given the difference in aircraft size. You may think BACE could take over shorthaul, but where are you going to find 737 drivers on the open market willing to work for £21K and £21 per night when they're away 12 nights each month?
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Thanks Fatboy!
So how many RJ's are there all together? Are they just going to Manch and Brum or also elsewhere? Are there (737) engineering conversion issues also at Manchester or is that just a Birmingham issue...? Seems like a hell of a lot of messing around with not a big end result.........
No doubt the people who have to move aren't paid for their trouble......................?
So how many RJ's are there all together? Are they just going to Manch and Brum or also elsewhere? Are there (737) engineering conversion issues also at Manchester or is that just a Birmingham issue...? Seems like a hell of a lot of messing around with not a big end result.........
No doubt the people who have to move aren't paid for their trouble......................?
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RJ100s at LGW
GREASE WEASEL
There are 16 RJ100s, all will have gone to BHX and MAN only by next spring, at the rate of two per month. First 2 or 3 already gone to MAN.
There are 16 RJ100s, all will have gone to BHX and MAN only by next spring, at the rate of two per month. First 2 or 3 already gone to MAN.
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From BA Aviation Section website www.avnclub.demon.co.uk
BAe RJ100
G-BZAY, final BA @ LGW service was BA2839/31Aug
CDG-LGW. Ferried LGW-MAN as BA9272P/01Sep.
In service with BACX as BA1654/02Sep MAN-FCO.
G-CFAA. final BA @ LGW service was BA8186/11Aug
BRU-LGW. Ferried to MAN same day as BA9271P.
In service with BACX as BA1604/12Aug MAN-CDG.
Further confirmed transfer dates:
G-CFAB - 16-Sep-02 - BASE MAN
Remaining planned dates are (but not confirmed):
G-BZAU - 01-Oct-02 - BASE BHX
G-BZAV - 14-Oct-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAE - 01-Nov-02 - BASE BHX
G-BXAS - 01-Nov-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAF - 01-Dec-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAH - 01-Dec-02 - BASE BHX
G-BZAW - 01-Jan-03 - BASE BHX
G-BZAT - 01-Jan-03 - BASE BHX
G-BXAR - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-CFAC - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-CFAD - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-BZAX - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
BAe RJ100
G-BZAY, final BA @ LGW service was BA2839/31Aug
CDG-LGW. Ferried LGW-MAN as BA9272P/01Sep.
In service with BACX as BA1654/02Sep MAN-FCO.
G-CFAA. final BA @ LGW service was BA8186/11Aug
BRU-LGW. Ferried to MAN same day as BA9271P.
In service with BACX as BA1604/12Aug MAN-CDG.
Further confirmed transfer dates:
G-CFAB - 16-Sep-02 - BASE MAN
Remaining planned dates are (but not confirmed):
G-BZAU - 01-Oct-02 - BASE BHX
G-BZAV - 14-Oct-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAE - 01-Nov-02 - BASE BHX
G-BXAS - 01-Nov-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAF - 01-Dec-02 - BASE BHX
G-CFAH - 01-Dec-02 - BASE BHX
G-BZAW - 01-Jan-03 - BASE BHX
G-BZAT - 01-Jan-03 - BASE BHX
G-BXAR - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-CFAC - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-CFAD - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
G-BZAX - 01-Apr-03 - BASE MAN
Rebel PPRuNer
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on the buses
Hand Solo on LHR:
Are you talking about inter-terminal pax transport or remote stand to terminal?
I can't understand how I can get an airside bus from T4 to T1 but not T1 to T4.
Sorry to divert off topic but that really bugs me
Its not our fault the bus drivers won't carry pax in both directions
I can't understand how I can get an airside bus from T4 to T1 but not T1 to T4.
Sorry to divert off topic but that really bugs me
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MarkD - Sorry I'm talking about crew transport. Bus drivers will carry crew from the crew report centre (Compass Centre (CCO)) to central area, but then won't carry crew from central area back to CCO. They insist they return from central area to CCO then be tasked to return to central area to pick up an inbound crew and return them to CCO. Similarly, they vetoed the plan to reduce crew transport from two busses to one because it would reduce the requirement for bus drivers ?! Tail wagging the dog again!
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That totally beggars belief!!!!!
How can these so called effing managers POSSIBLY accept that sort of behaviour and conduct!!!?
Who is the so-called manager in charge of this load of b0ll0x, I shall write to him personally!!!!
This is a great example of EXACTLY why BA is such an eff1ng mess, I can hardly believe it!!!
Please HS, if you have a name, lets have it, and I'll start educating people in BACX what mainline is REALLY like!!!!
Nope, I STILL can't effing believe it, it's not the tail wagging the dog, it's the terd left by the dog causing the dog to change course!!!
How can these so called effing managers POSSIBLY accept that sort of behaviour and conduct!!!?
Who is the so-called manager in charge of this load of b0ll0x, I shall write to him personally!!!!
This is a great example of EXACTLY why BA is such an eff1ng mess, I can hardly believe it!!!
Please HS, if you have a name, lets have it, and I'll start educating people in BACX what mainline is REALLY like!!!!
Nope, I STILL can't effing believe it, it's not the tail wagging the dog, it's the terd left by the dog causing the dog to change course!!!
Junior trash
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No its worse than that! There was going to be no reduction in buses in service as, half were to be left on crew buses to improve reliability and the other half were going to pax buses again to improve reliability. But MT prefer doing crew bussing so they said no. And some of them get paid more than me!
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I understand that it is the franchise issue that is holding up scope negotiations at the moment. If this one isn't settled there could be all sorts of cages being rattled at LGW, MAN and BHX.
