Foreign criminal proceedings against airline pilots – lessons from a Kazakhstan case
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 943
Likes: 441
From: Austria
Some operators have folders on their destinations that contain information on local issues. Also, many foreign ministries (as in ministries minding the external relations of ones country) have websites offering summaries on other countries, travel warnings, issues to be minded by travellers and so on. While one may well argue that it is the employers responsibility to provide its travelling crews with as much information as possible, reason dictates that for ones personal safety, this information is to be actively searched and minded by the traveller himself. As a minimum, know where Your embassy is and how to contact it.
Generally speaking - when in Rome, do as the Romans. Be aware of local particularities before going. Mind local habits, customs and rules: if the tradition says that on a holy Wednesday, stale beer is to be drunk, stale beer it is. If socks and sandals are the required dress code for males, let Lagerfeld spin in his grave and wear them. And if You do not want to risk a run-in with authorities or are not really proficient in the local language, think before operating a vehicle Yourself. Often, a local hired driver is a valuable safety net, he knows the traffic rules and what to do in case of mishaps. Also, be aware of who and what building will suffer his or its picture taken without raising anger - a traditional beating or an arrest due to espionage suspicion are not in most peoples bucket list. Mind what You talk about to whom, general rules of politeness apply and slagging off the country You are visiting is not taken favourably. Also check the rules on tipping: what is strictly required in one country may well be an insult in another one. Applying Japanese, Swiss or Finnish tipping customs to the US would be met with about the same dislike as the other way round. If You happen to know a few polite words in the local language, as in some greetings, please and thank You, this is generally very well received.
Surely there are some more considerations to be borne in mind. But the above short list has served me rather well until now.
Generally speaking - when in Rome, do as the Romans. Be aware of local particularities before going. Mind local habits, customs and rules: if the tradition says that on a holy Wednesday, stale beer is to be drunk, stale beer it is. If socks and sandals are the required dress code for males, let Lagerfeld spin in his grave and wear them. And if You do not want to risk a run-in with authorities or are not really proficient in the local language, think before operating a vehicle Yourself. Often, a local hired driver is a valuable safety net, he knows the traffic rules and what to do in case of mishaps. Also, be aware of who and what building will suffer his or its picture taken without raising anger - a traditional beating or an arrest due to espionage suspicion are not in most peoples bucket list. Mind what You talk about to whom, general rules of politeness apply and slagging off the country You are visiting is not taken favourably. Also check the rules on tipping: what is strictly required in one country may well be an insult in another one. Applying Japanese, Swiss or Finnish tipping customs to the US would be met with about the same dislike as the other way round. If You happen to know a few polite words in the local language, as in some greetings, please and thank You, this is generally very well received.
Surely there are some more considerations to be borne in mind. But the above short list has served me rather well until now.
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
TU.114; Sobering start to my day. I think I broke every one of your advisories on your shortlist. Earlier post of mine recognised how close I came. I also think your shortlist should be presented to all operators and passed on to all crews.
Er, actually, I am going to steal it, present it as my idea and try to sell it. (Nah-just joking- local laws in Cyprus frown on that sort of thing ) !
Er, actually, I am going to steal it, present it as my idea and try to sell it. (Nah-just joking- local laws in Cyprus frown on that sort of thing ) !
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,557
Likes: 231
From: Asia
Whilst everyone has different experiences, now 54 years of overseas working and living has taught me one very valuable lesson. NEVER rely on the British Embassy or consulate for any assistance in any way. Total waste of my time and taxpayers money.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 911
Likes: 334
From: uk
The devil is in the detail. While, probably like most here I have no idea what actually happened…It would appear that Captain Mohammed brought his wife and child on a night stop trip. The fact that the child tragically ended up dead would precipitate considerable involvement of the local police force. This is as serious as it gets and not really analogous with not following local tipping protocols. Without being frivolous over what is an appalling event it is understandable that there is not much company or union advice when it comes to your child being killed either accidentally or deliberately. The probability is that there was some level of toxicity in the relationship whether him or her and possibly drugs or alcohol could be involved. While I agree from my own experience that British embassy or consulate staff are fairly useless, with the best will in the world I don’t know what help you could expect in a situation so awful as this.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 943
Likes: 441
From: Austria
@Gordomac, of course these rules help one steer well clear of any fun as well and most good stories start with a running jump across those lines. A good excuse is not to be sneered at either, look at Terry Pratchetts Priests of Offler that feast on sausages all day with the true sausagivity rising up to their lord and only the taste of ashes remaining within their mouths. This can be easily adapted to stale beer and others.
N4790P
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,557
Likes: 231
From: Asia
The devil is in the detail. While, probably like most here I have no idea what actually happened…It would appear that Captain Mohammed brought his wife and child on a night stop trip. The fact that the child tragically ended up dead would precipitate considerable involvement of the local police force. This is as serious as it gets and not really analogous with not following local tipping protocols. Without being frivolous over what is an appalling event it is understandable that there is not much company or union advice when it comes to your child being killed either accidentally or deliberately. The probability is that there was some level of toxicity in the relationship whether him or her and possibly drugs or alcohol could be involved. While I agree from my own experience that British embassy or consulate staff are fairly useless, with the best will in the world I don’t know what help you could expect in a situation so awful as this.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 234
Likes: 24
From: germany
I had an encounter in Saudi.
Sleeping in a Hotel room together with my wife.
The religious police, the mutaween, entered the room with a key without knocking and tried to arrest us.
That was in 2007. I don’t know if that is still happening.
Sleeping in a Hotel room together with my wife.
The religious police, the mutaween, entered the room with a key without knocking and tried to arrest us.
That was in 2007. I don’t know if that is still happening.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 943
Likes: 441
From: Austria
I have visited countries that inspect all incoming luggage for bottles that may contain alcohol, police in some countries will even frown upon someone uttering the name of the respective head of state. Showing too much affection to others may carry heavy consequences in some places, wearing too little or too much clothing is able to cause issues as well. Countries differ in detail and actions that will not even raise an eyebrow in one country will attract serious punishment in others.
But I am reasonably sure that there is no country the police forces of which will not take interest in suspicions of homicide. What, then, is a consulate to do? There is no such thing as a get-out-of-jail card stapled to ones passport, a sovereign nation must retain the right to punish malefactors on its territory. But what the consulate, company or the pilot union can do is provide a translator, help in picking a suitable local attorney and possibly have a representative sit in the audience at court. Some attention from outsiders may well cause the court to show the stern, but more importantly merciful face of its countries justice to the world. Maybe an exchange of prisoners can be arranged for, although this system has been misused by some countries in the past for political reasons - certainly, serving ones time in ones home country is preferrable to rotting in the slammer somewhere else. Or the sentence could include a deportation after having served some time. Some options are there, but still the best among those is to steer clear of anything illegal as much as possible...
But I am reasonably sure that there is no country the police forces of which will not take interest in suspicions of homicide. What, then, is a consulate to do? There is no such thing as a get-out-of-jail card stapled to ones passport, a sovereign nation must retain the right to punish malefactors on its territory. But what the consulate, company or the pilot union can do is provide a translator, help in picking a suitable local attorney and possibly have a representative sit in the audience at court. Some attention from outsiders may well cause the court to show the stern, but more importantly merciful face of its countries justice to the world. Maybe an exchange of prisoners can be arranged for, although this system has been misused by some countries in the past for political reasons - certainly, serving ones time in ones home country is preferrable to rotting in the slammer somewhere else. Or the sentence could include a deportation after having served some time. Some options are there, but still the best among those is to steer clear of anything illegal as much as possible...
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 55
Likes: 2
From: langerland
long long ago far far away, I worked in the middle east. Some times we had to drive ourselves for short trips. Basically we were told if we had a tip that if you were not in our country this would not have happened.
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 18
Likes: 15
From: Leicester
Kazakhstan, like a number of other states we fly into, is regularly described by international organisations as authoritarian, with systemic corruption and weak judicial independence. That means once you are in the system there, you may not get the sort of process you’d assume exists in Europe or other rule-of-law jurisdictions.
Joined: Oct 2018
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,213
Likes: 1,648
From: Ferrara
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
Likes: 30
From: not far from LGW
If (when talking about “naturalized”) by former pm you mean Boris Johnson, born in the USA with Turkish ancestry, your point may be reasonable, otherwise your comment seems 1) inaccurate, 2) racist, and 3) rather ironic from someone whose apparent country was founded by immigrants…. Probably best to ask the mods to take a look at it.
Last edited by stoatsbrother; 28th November 2025 at 19:32. Reason: Clarification of context
Flashes from the Archives of Oblivion
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 189
From: 03 ACE
Try Amir !!
Joined: Nov 2025
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 229
Likes: 34
From: San Francisco
How does the fact that he is a pilot have any relevance?
This could have happened to him on a holiday or if he was a businessman on a work trip.
Whether he is British, a pilot or anything else should not provide greater or lesser sympathy.
Justice miscarriages, if the case, happens all around the world, including Britain.
This could have happened to him on a holiday or if he was a businessman on a work trip.
Whether he is British, a pilot or anything else should not provide greater or lesser sympathy.
Justice miscarriages, if the case, happens all around the world, including Britain.
.........Leonakua.
Sympathy is in the dictionary, between S**T, and Syphilis.
.........also, Leonakua.
