Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

When you come across the title "Is Airbus hiding an evolution?"

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

When you come across the title "Is Airbus hiding an evolution?"

Old 29th Feb 2024, 15:05
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post

36 years ago..... at Farnborough airshow.

MD-80 with un-ducted fan.

Good luck to the engineers and designers involved

Dave is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by Dave:
Old 29th Feb 2024, 15:27
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 34 Likes on 24 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave
36 years ago..... at Farnborough airshow. MD-80 with un-ducted fan.
Got a bit of that P180 vibe.
BFSGrad is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 17:33
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,994
Received 318 Likes on 163 Posts
Originally Posted by BFSGrad
Got a bit of that P180 vibe.
I recall it doing a good impression of a flying buzz-saw.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 18:20
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 69
Posts: 4,554
Received 323 Likes on 157 Posts
Originally Posted by FlexibleResponse
And they are planning to test the engine on an Airbus A-380!
Makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Four engine aircraft, so lots of redundancy is something goes seriously wrong and does secondary damage (GE already has a 747-400 based Flying Test Bed - which replaced their 747-100 FTB). Boeing very nearly lost its 'prototype' 767 (VA-001) doing flight testing of the PW4000/94" when it went into non-recoverable surges at 50 ft. during takeoff (and the left seat pilot responded by pulling back both thrust levers - fortunately the guy in the right seat quickly responded by firewalling both throttles - the PW4000 responded by continuing to surge but the JT9D kept them flying).
Boeing long used the prototype 747 (RA-001) as a test bed for new engines (it's part of the Seattle Museum of Flight now). I suspect if Airbus is putting a lot of money and emphasis on the project they wouldn't want to see it flying on a 747 .
Plus, early build A380's are readily available cheap...

If this Hybrid /ac is planning to be cruising at the same altitudes as the current Jetliners, but at much lower speed, and come in big numbers to replace the A32+s , 737s and 220s, we're going to have a major capacity issue when they arrive as they will not mix well with the current fleets. Or they are going to be left below FL290
This was an issue for the 737-3/4/500 series - it cruised significantly slower than other jetliners (although quite a bit faster than 0.72 Mach) - as a result it tended to get less than optimum routing to keep it out of the way of the faster traffic. It was one of the big drivers for the 737 NG program - to modify the wing so it could cruise faster.
tdracer is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 18:33
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by tdracer
... as a result it tended to get less than optimum routing to keep it out of the way of the faster traffic.
This is mainly history now. Air traffic, at least in my part of the world, does not fly along airways - which were mandated by ground based navigation aids - any more. There is a growing number of countries that have abolished airways altogether. Aircraft now fly direct routes between convenitntly located waypoints. Therefore it does not matter what speed you fly at, because no other aircraft is flying the exact same route as you. There are exceptions like north Atlantic tracks, but I am certain that a solution to that problem will be found as well.
what next is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 19:03
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,156
Received 92 Likes on 53 Posts
It is optimised to need less fuel. Batteries won't work for big passenger aircraft, so something like the CFM RISE is the next best thing. At least 15 percent less fuel. Plus a new "gull" wing with provisions for even larger diameter engines and possibly moving outer wings, lightweight CFRP-fuselage with wide diameter in the back. Sounds reasonable. I wonder how many seats they install in the cockpit? The funny windows might intend to give some clue?
Anyway, so much better than hydrogen fantasies.
Less Hair is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 19:09
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: California
Posts: 350
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
The Piaggio certainly has that extra “vibe”, due to the closeness of the the prop blades to the trailing edge of the wing?.
fleigle is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 21:09
  #28 (permalink)  

"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: England
Age: 77
Posts: 4,205
Received 265 Likes on 86 Posts
Some 45 years ago, I was regularly flying a very high bypass unducted fan. Built by Rolls Royce. It was called the Dart Nothing much new under the sun.
Herod is offline  
Old 29th Feb 2024, 21:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Posts: 513
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tdracer
Yet somehow, commercial jet aircraft still look pretty much the same as a 707/DC-8...
I started thinking about learning to fly in the early 90's and started hanging around the local FBO's etc. There was no end of publications full of all the amazing new concepts that were going to revolutionize flying. Well as td says nothing in the basic shape has changed.
At the same time the industry has done an amazing job of incrementally squeezing a bit more juice out of the lemon every year. I have seen the figure 1.4% annual improvement in fuel efficiency often quoted.
The same people who were promoting the "revolution "were also saying this improvement in fuel efficiency would stop.
Still it makes some sense for Airbus to take a flutter on the UDF - They have the money and you never know what you will learn along the way.
As they say never let perfection get in the way of good.
20driver is online now  
Old 2nd Mar 2024, 10:02
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Funny that this is being bandied about as "news", Airbus and CFM launched an open fan flight test demonstrator programme back in July 2022, with press release and everything...

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/p...monstrator-for
Joe_K is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2024, 11:14
  #31 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Far East
Posts: 315
Received 108 Likes on 76 Posts
Originally Posted by Joe_K
Funny that this is being bandied about as "news"
So you have seen this plane rendering with its cues before?

BTW, mentour pilot speculates about option for hydrogen tanks in the aft. Giving another purpose for the mid cabin doors.
waito is offline  
Old 9th May 2024, 23:13
  #32 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Far East
Posts: 315
Received 108 Likes on 76 Posts
3 Concepts from German DLR Institute within Project Exact, for short- and midrange aircraft, presented in these days.

Hydrogen Mild Hybrid
Battery-Electric Hybrid
Efficient Turboprop with conventional/SAF Fuel

Publication not (yet) avail in English





Last edited by waito; 10th May 2024 at 05:10. Reason: three
waito is offline  
Old 10th May 2024, 07:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 1A
Posts: 8,651
Received 131 Likes on 69 Posts
Originally Posted by what next
Air traffic, at least in my part of the world, does not fly along airways - which were mandated by ground based navigation aids - any more. There is a growing number of countries that have abolished airways altogether. Aircraft now fly direct routes between convenitntly located waypoints. Therefore it does not matter what speed you fly at, because no other aircraft is flying the exact same route as you.
You are joking, right? So you never fly on STARs?
Capn Bloggs is online now  
Old 10th May 2024, 19:48
  #34 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,740
Received 21 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by waito
3 Concepts from German DLR Institute within Project Exact, for short- and midrange aircraft, presented in these days.
Hydrogen Mild Hybrid
Battery-Electric Hybrid
Efficient Turboprop with conventional/SAF Fuel
Publication not (yet) avail in English
The problem with DLR ( and the Dutch NLR) is that they do not build airplanes, Airbus does, has a much larger budget and lots more people on their Research department. and so far none of the DLR/NLR projects /concepts has ever seen the light of day.
One thing they got right apparently is the hybrid concept . In AERO 24 last month a French company showed a 19 seat hybrid aircraft the ERA, with 150 NM range on pure electric and 600 NM range on hybrid using 2 small APU turbines to recharge the batteries using SAF ,They have already over 500 pre-orders, .mostly from islands and mountainous areas countries., Operational 2028-2029. We'll see.

Last edited by ATC Watcher; 10th May 2024 at 20:00.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 10th May 2024, 23:42
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 66
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by what next
They already started the test program using the engine core of a military GE F110 engine.



This is what I remember too (and my degree is not in aircraft propulsion either) but for comparison: The Airbus A400M military transport has a maximum Mach number of .72 using 8-blade turboprop engines. With this aircraft, noise and passenger comfort are no major issues, but it already comes close to the speed range of the RISE engine.
Normal cruise on the A400 is M.68. A increase to M.72 increases fuel consumption 20%.
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 11th May 2024, 04:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 65
Posts: 7,367
Received 559 Likes on 351 Posts
If you want to know if Airbus hides things, go to Norway in about 2013.
Just don't work on an offshore rig.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 11th May 2024, 06:20
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 6,064
Received 559 Likes on 261 Posts
Presume this is what you refer to Lone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHC_He...ice_Flight_241

And another of similar variety, all much discussed in Rotorheads as you would expect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_O...ers_Flight_85N
megan is offline  
Old 11th May 2024, 08:26
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Seattle
Posts: 257
Received 18 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
If you want to know if Airbus hides things, go to Norway in about 2013.
Just don't work on an offshore rig.
So apart from the AIBN report available online, the Wikipedia page and multiple links available on Google - Airbus has hidden things?

Moon landings were faked and the earth is flat too right?
BoeingDriver99 is offline  
Old 11th May 2024, 11:47
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 66
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
You are joking, right? So you never fly on STARs?
Or tracks on the Atlantic?
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 11th May 2024, 17:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 65
Posts: 7,367
Received 559 Likes on 351 Posts
Originally Posted by BoeingDriver99
So apart from the AIBN report available online, the Wikipedia page and multiple links available on Google - Airbus has hidden things?
If you had been paying attention when the accident occurred you'd understand what I referred to. However, that was well covered on Rotor Heads at the time, no need to re argue that here.
BLUF:
Spoiler
 

Lonewolf_50 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.