Tel Aviv and back
Thread Starter
Tel Aviv and back
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67081696
is it normal to carry this much fuel to Tel Aviv?
guess given the circumstances it’s an ops decision, just surprised they took enough to go all the way back to LHR. But then I guess BA have experience of losing aircraft in war zones!
is it normal to carry this much fuel to Tel Aviv?
guess given the circumstances it’s an ops decision, just surprised they took enough to go all the way back to LHR. But then I guess BA have experience of losing aircraft in war zones!
Last edited by Jonty; 11th Oct 2023 at 18:28.
Pegase Driver
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I am always surprised some even (still) try to fly commercial aircraft into active war zones ., Here we have rockets fired and automated anti missile interceptions occurring just a few miles from the main airport.
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If you look at the FR24 trace it appears that the transponder was switched off as the a/c approached Ben Gurion then on again a few minutes later as it stooged around to the North before heading back to UK. As Pegase Driver says - extraordinary.
Or FR24 decided to suppress plots in a war zone.
Lots of possible reasons that don't involve the transponder.
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It is not uncommon to experience GPS interference in Israeli airspace. Loss of GPS position data results in loss of ADS-B out.
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Last edited by Lake1952; 12th Oct 2023 at 16:04.
As has been said these are not normal times and whilst not wishing to say too much I think it is safe to say the fuel plan/load for destinations isn’t just blindly run only on the basis of TAFs and NOTAMS.
Even before last weeks events whilst rare it wasn't completely unknown to despatch for TLV from London with lots of gas and very distant alternates on file if there was thought to be a possibility of potential, err, issues on arrival.
Personally I never saw round trip fuel loaded/suggested though that might not have been possible in our case due to payload (it was a popular route) and max landing weight considerations for TLV.
Loss of GPS was not uncommon in that part of the Med even before current events.
I guess I must be missing something on Flightware - for the eastern portion of the flight best I'm seeing is loss of data and 9000' as a minimum alt, I’m not seeing evidence of an actual go-around..might be my lack of IT skills.
Even before last weeks events whilst rare it wasn't completely unknown to despatch for TLV from London with lots of gas and very distant alternates on file if there was thought to be a possibility of potential, err, issues on arrival.
Personally I never saw round trip fuel loaded/suggested though that might not have been possible in our case due to payload (it was a popular route) and max landing weight considerations for TLV.
Loss of GPS was not uncommon in that part of the Med even before current events.
I guess I must be missing something on Flightware - for the eastern portion of the flight best I'm seeing is loss of data and 9000' as a minimum alt, I’m not seeing evidence of an actual go-around..might be my lack of IT skills.
Last edited by wiggy; 12th Oct 2023 at 07:12.
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A couple of years a ago there was some sort of fuel shortage in JNB. I operated a 788 freighter from London to Jo'burg tanking fuel and planned to land just below MLW. We filled it up out of LHR. We requested 03L in JNB (4418m) as opposed to the nominated landing runway in use of 03R (3400m) as we needed the extra landing distance. ATC asked us 3 time why we could not accept 03R before begrudgingly allowing us to land on 03L.
We landed with enough fuel to turn around and make anywhere in West Africa.
We landed with enough fuel to turn around and make anywhere in West Africa.
TEl Aviv and back
I was in Paphos on Friday. Cyprus is full of Israelis buying/renting not only in the South but in the North too. As the news broke, me and the memsahib felt heartfelt sorrow for those we met inthe Paphos pubs.
Netanyahu, declared a war situation. I thought all borders would be closed and, again, felt concerned for those we me who would now be stuck, all over this Island. I heard that BA had gone in & turned backy and was astonished to read in our local paper that flights were being operated, normally, to Tel Aviv.
Normal, commercial ops, into and out of a war zone. Er, is it just me ?
WAy back, same zone, I had the misfortune to work for a true cowboy outfit. Notams advised all operators to avoid the area. They did. My lot didn't. I told ops to refile a long way round, hit the crew hour problem for return, would make it back as far as I could but a three sector day meant crew party, Cardiff, at best ! Ops Cowboy asked how long I intended staying with the Company and Head Cowboy phoned to ask what my problem was.
I looked really silly in my Lone Ranger outfit anyway,, said "kimosabi" and engineered the perfect escape.
Others seemed happy enough to operate in and out of declared "to be avoided" zones. Astonishing.
Netanyahu, declared a war situation. I thought all borders would be closed and, again, felt concerned for those we me who would now be stuck, all over this Island. I heard that BA had gone in & turned backy and was astonished to read in our local paper that flights were being operated, normally, to Tel Aviv.
Normal, commercial ops, into and out of a war zone. Er, is it just me ?
WAy back, same zone, I had the misfortune to work for a true cowboy outfit. Notams advised all operators to avoid the area. They did. My lot didn't. I told ops to refile a long way round, hit the crew hour problem for return, would make it back as far as I could but a three sector day meant crew party, Cardiff, at best ! Ops Cowboy asked how long I intended staying with the Company and Head Cowboy phoned to ask what my problem was.
I looked really silly in my Lone Ranger outfit anyway,, said "kimosabi" and engineered the perfect escape.
Others seemed happy enough to operate in and out of declared "to be avoided" zones. Astonishing.
It does seem to be the BA Way…maximise revenue at the expense of everything else. Just because the British Government hasn’t said not to go doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
On a separate note, if BALPA was a bit stronger, it could be making its own security recommendations. Sadly, it seems too wrapped up in its own in-fighting.
On a separate note, if BALPA was a bit stronger, it could be making its own security recommendations. Sadly, it seems too wrapped up in its own in-fighting.
One can only wonder what security concern could possibly prompt a g/a at minima, short of visual indications of an attack which afaik has not been reported at that airport.
Were they told to g/a by tower? Certainly no-one is listening to company ot taking ACARS messages at that point in a flight so Ops are unlikely to have intervened.
Sounds rather odd to say the least.
Were they told to g/a by tower? Certainly no-one is listening to company ot taking ACARS messages at that point in a flight so Ops are unlikely to have intervened.
Sounds rather odd to say the least.
Tel Aviv and back
At the time of several aircraft delaying their approach West of Haifa I did a Google search of any possible attack on TLV, and a local radio station came up with the info that multiple rockets were currently being fired at the airport.
BA was only just South of Haifa when I saw it turn back, certainly not a g/a from min. My assumption that it would likely head for Larnaca was soon proved wrong when it climbed to FL400 .
I have been using FR with caution in the TLV area as some things have been showing up, clearly incorrect.
BA was only just South of Haifa when I saw it turn back, certainly not a g/a from min. My assumption that it would likely head for Larnaca was soon proved wrong when it climbed to FL400 .
I have been using FR with caution in the TLV area as some things have been showing up, clearly incorrect.
I know a retired BA pilot. At the beginning of Gulf War one he operated a 767 towards Saudi. He had only 17 pax but also freight. As they approached the Egyptian coast he was told Saudi airspace had closed and what did he want to do? He deciede to head back to Athens on the basis that there would be other 757/767 crew there. Once he'd turned around he looked at his fuel etc. and realised he could get back to LHR so he did. They parked him on the stand next to the one he left from "never took so long to go such a short distance".
That was what he told me when I next saw him.
That was what he told me when I next saw him.