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Electric air service next year.

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Old 25th Jul 2023, 07:51
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by procede
I think the main issue is that the pipistrel can only fly 50 min + 10 min VFR reserve (and those are optimistic numbers). No way you could transport paying passengers.
To say nothing of the fact that it is only a two seater!
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Old 25th Jul 2023, 17:26
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by procede
I think the main issue is that the pipistrel can only fly 50 min + 10 min VFR reserve (and those are optimistic numbers). No way you could transport paying passengers.
That is not the point. What the certification standards commercial electric airplanes will have to meet is hugely consequential for companies pursuing this technology. Determining a “equivalent level of safety” for a completely novel power train compared to existing certified a power plants, is not obvious or easy. Regulators are understandably leery of approving something that is potentially unsafe, yet at the same time are facing a lot of political pressure to enable green technologies.

I expect electric aircraft will go through a cycle similar to other transformative technologies. There will be a lot of dead ends, a Shyte load of hype and BS design to separate suckers from their money and then eventually some serious projects. However the reality is that the laws of physics and chemistry makes practical electric powered airplanes, whether, battery, hydrogen, or something else a very tough problem to solve.
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 10:18
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
The CS23 certification standard for the Pipistrel Velis Electro is not recognized by any other Civil Aviation Authority and is missing many of the requirements for commercially operated air transport aircraft. It is a start but is not a pathway to certification of any of the proposed electric commuter or regional airliners.
It is recognized within all European Union Member States. Isn`t that an achievment? You sounds like EU approval is insignificant?? I beg to disagree.
Of course, this twin seater is not capable of commercial passenger transport, and has limited capabilities (endurance) but is the first electric driven airplane, that is certified under EU regulations. And, since it can be used in flight schools, it can actually make money, albeit not in transporting people/goods.
Yes, it is an early bird, but bigger things are in the pipeline. There is a reason that Textron bought Pipistrel manufacturer for hundreds of millions of $.
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 22:39
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hoistop
It is recognized within all European Union Member States. Isn`t that an achievment? You sounds like EU approval is insignificant?? I beg to disagree.
Of course, this twin seater is not capable of commercial passenger transport, and has limited capabilities (endurance) but is the first electric driven airplane, that is certified under EU regulations. And, since it can be used in flight schools, it can actually make money, albeit not in transporting people/goods.
Yes, it is an early bird, but bigger things are in the pipeline. There is a reason that Textron bought Pipistrel manufacturer for hundreds of millions of $.
The Pipistrel Velus Electro can't be used in flight schools in Canada because Transport Canada requires training aircraft to have a FAR 23 or equivalent certification. The Electro can't be registered by the FAA as an LSA because the LSA category has no provisions for electric powered aircraft. These recreational or sport certification regimes are a dead end for commercial operations. What is needed is electric propulsion certification criteria to be added to FAR 23 or equivalent certification regulations ASAP so that there is some clarity on where the bar is for commercial electric aircraft
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Old 26th Jul 2023, 23:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
The Pipistrel Velus Electro can't be used in flight schools in Canada because Transport Canada requires training aircraft to have a FAR 23 or equivalent certification. The Electro can't be registered by the FAA as an LSA because the LSA category has no provisions for electric powered aircraft. These recreational or sport certification regimes are a dead end for commercial operations. What is needed is electric propulsion certification criteria to be added to FAR 23 or equivalent certification regulations ASAP so that there is some clarity on where the bar is for commercial electric aircraft
Given the speed that the FAA (and their equivalents in other countries) move, it'll be a minimum of ten years before any regulations are published.
When we did the first FADECs on the 757, 767, and 747 back in the 1980s, most of it was done via 'Special Conditions' as many of the necessary regulations didn't exist yet in FAA land. Certifying via Special Condition is a huge pain in the rear (especially since they have a way of being 'fluid' and moving around during the process).
Over twenty years later - when Boeing launched the 747-8 - it was launched at Amendment level 117. The regulations still didn't exist for HIRF/EMI - in order to avoid the pain and suffering of another Special Condition cert, Boeing voluntarily stepped up to Amendment level 120 for those regulations.
The JAA/EASA - to their credit - managed to finalize those rules a decade earlier...
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