TAP extra long landing
vilas, re 'It is not ROPS in Boeing …'
'It' refers to technical systems, significantly different between Boeing and Airbus.
RAAS as fitted to EK was a reactive system, alerting to a specific distance gone, not that remaining - as per CB DtA above. RAAS is a reactive, advisory system which with ridged SOPS can be ambiguous because 'the correct decision' (after the event), changes with the situation.
RAAS has no specific situational knowledge
Alternatively, ROPS, both functionally and operationally supports the crew with less ambiguity. ROPS has predictive - anticipatory capacity originating from information available from the FMS and crew input. The calculations have the same basis as the crew's pre-landing distance assessment.
SOPs based on ROPS will be more consistent as they relate to the actual situation.
https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2...nting%20RE.pdf
ROPS page 46
Also see preceding sections on crosswind - a feature at Funchal, and TOGA logic and selection vs Boeing's 777 system which contributed to the EK acccident.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hajf7m9wfrv1xzsxcjw5s/ROPS-Frank-Chapman.pdf?rlkey=e9f4lkalxqipek1wunix9qpr1&dl=
page 20
n.b. Alerting, call-outs, displays; and quick landing assessment for all runway conditions - situation awareness.
https://slideplayer.com/slide/10912942/
n.b. 'What the pilot sees - what ROPS sees', slide 15
'Small deviations can have a large impact.' slide 8
Need for understanding slide 17
https://aircraft.airbus.com/sites/g/...bus-FAST55.pdf
page 12
.
'It' refers to technical systems, significantly different between Boeing and Airbus.
RAAS as fitted to EK was a reactive system, alerting to a specific distance gone, not that remaining - as per CB DtA above. RAAS is a reactive, advisory system which with ridged SOPS can be ambiguous because 'the correct decision' (after the event), changes with the situation.
RAAS has no specific situational knowledge
Alternatively, ROPS, both functionally and operationally supports the crew with less ambiguity. ROPS has predictive - anticipatory capacity originating from information available from the FMS and crew input. The calculations have the same basis as the crew's pre-landing distance assessment.
SOPs based on ROPS will be more consistent as they relate to the actual situation.
https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2...nting%20RE.pdf
ROPS page 46
Also see preceding sections on crosswind - a feature at Funchal, and TOGA logic and selection vs Boeing's 777 system which contributed to the EK acccident.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hajf7m9wfrv1xzsxcjw5s/ROPS-Frank-Chapman.pdf?rlkey=e9f4lkalxqipek1wunix9qpr1&dl=
page 20
n.b. Alerting, call-outs, displays; and quick landing assessment for all runway conditions - situation awareness.
https://slideplayer.com/slide/10912942/
n.b. 'What the pilot sees - what ROPS sees', slide 15
'Small deviations can have a large impact.' slide 8
Need for understanding slide 17
https://aircraft.airbus.com/sites/g/...bus-FAST55.pdf
page 12
.
Last edited by safetypee; 24th Jul 2023 at 08:40. Reason: FAST page 12
Having watched this video several times and other similar landings it is interesting to note that many have almost resulted in a perfect landing before descent is arrested several feet above the runway followed by level flight or even an increase in height.
As the aircraft’s spoilers have been very effectively used at London City to enable a steeper stable approach than normal via a “London City Mode”, surely they could be used in a similar “land assist” mode at airports with shorter runways or windsheer issues such as at Funchal.
Upon engagement of the mode it is activated provided that the threshold crossing height is within limits and the aircraft reaches 10 feet at the correct point. Here the spoilers would extend to maintain a minimum descent rate of 100ft per minute to touchdown.
Application of TOGA would cancel the mode and a chime or call out would let pilots know it is active or cancelled depending on whether or not conditions for its deployment had been met.
Thoughts?
As the aircraft’s spoilers have been very effectively used at London City to enable a steeper stable approach than normal via a “London City Mode”, surely they could be used in a similar “land assist” mode at airports with shorter runways or windsheer issues such as at Funchal.
Upon engagement of the mode it is activated provided that the threshold crossing height is within limits and the aircraft reaches 10 feet at the correct point. Here the spoilers would extend to maintain a minimum descent rate of 100ft per minute to touchdown.
Application of TOGA would cancel the mode and a chime or call out would let pilots know it is active or cancelled depending on whether or not conditions for its deployment had been met.
Thoughts?
