Ryanair chief pilot fired
From the One Mile at a Time blog:
So, what exactly happened? The CP’s career came tumbling down a few weeks ago, following some allegations from junior female staff. Eight female staff between the ages of 21 and 32 provided statements about the CP’s misconduct, which happened in the past 12-18 months. Among other things:
It’s telling to see that these incidents happened only within the last 12 months, and in a carrier that wasn’t a “old school legacy” dominated by pilots from “a different era”. This is meant to be a major employer of young people who we know know will include more young women on the flight deck.
This should serve as a lesson to all those who think that harassment and inappropriate treatment of women in the flight decks is something that stopped years ago, and now it’s all “feminist woke garbage pushing an agenda”. I can see exactly why women’s groups want to push for a more inclusive and safe environment on the flight deck. If the CP at one of the world’s biggest carriers thought he could get away with such behaviour the amount of line pilots who currently do the same must be a significant number.
So, what exactly happened? The CP’s career came tumbling down a few weeks ago, following some allegations from junior female staff. Eight female staff between the ages of 21 and 32 provided statements about the CP’s misconduct, which happened in the past 12-18 months. Among other things:
- CP would send text messages to junior female pilots, offering to support their careers
- CP would then text and say that they had an “amazing body” and “amazing ass,” and he’d then ask them for pictures of their bodies, promising they wouldn’t be shared
- CP then changed around rosters of crew members so that he could regularly fly with some of these junior female pilots; about two-thirds of the flights he took were with these pilots
It’s telling to see that these incidents happened only within the last 12 months, and in a carrier that wasn’t a “old school legacy” dominated by pilots from “a different era”. This is meant to be a major employer of young people who we know know will include more young women on the flight deck.
This should serve as a lesson to all those who think that harassment and inappropriate treatment of women in the flight decks is something that stopped years ago, and now it’s all “feminist woke garbage pushing an agenda”. I can see exactly why women’s groups want to push for a more inclusive and safe environment on the flight deck. If the CP at one of the world’s biggest carriers thought he could get away with such behaviour the amount of line pilots who currently do the same must be a significant number.
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No one is gonna talk about wizz air culture about hiring CUTE BLONDE ALMOST MODEL women policy? Because I can see the hints, the path ghey follow hiring women and i don't think I am the only one that has come up with this thought... Many friends specially the ones that have gone through their assessment have noticed.
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There is a big elephant in the room here , because :
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
A Dublin-based Irish Gardai source said there was currently no record of any complaints having been made relating to the alleged incidents.
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
There is a big elephant in the room here , because :
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
Crewing is 24/7/365, and is shift work based. The first hole in the cheese is that because the liaison between a cp and crewing won’t be between the same people all the time, due crewing shift work, a pattern would be difficult to spot, and that’s thinking about doing it by phone. Walking into the crewing area even easier, make sure you don’t ask same officer as last time. The airline pilot managers can almost certainly access the rosters to see when pilot bloggs is flying, so could pick the flight they want to crew rather than asking crewing ‘when is bloggs flying?’ It’s not hard to see in a large airline how with sufficient insider knowledge that this abuse pattern might be difficult to spot.
RYR’s prompt action (and presumably fast review of how the roster changes were managed) send the right message.
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Presumably because you’ve not worked in the crewing/ops community.
Crewing is 24/7/365, and is shift work based. The first hole in the cheese is that because the liaison between a cp and crewing won’t be between the same people all the time, due crewing shift work, a pattern would be difficult to spot, and that’s thinking about doing it by phone. Walking into the crewing area even easier, make sure you don’t ask same officer as last time. The airline pilot managers can almost certainly access the rosters to see when pilot bloggs is flying, so could pick the flight they want to crew rather than asking crewing ‘when is bloggs flying?’ It’s not hard to see in a large airline how with sufficient insider knowledge that this abuse pattern might be difficult to spot.
RYR’s prompt action (and presumably fast review of how the roster changes were managed) send the right message.
Crewing is 24/7/365, and is shift work based. The first hole in the cheese is that because the liaison between a cp and crewing won’t be between the same people all the time, due crewing shift work, a pattern would be difficult to spot, and that’s thinking about doing it by phone. Walking into the crewing area even easier, make sure you don’t ask same officer as last time. The airline pilot managers can almost certainly access the rosters to see when pilot bloggs is flying, so could pick the flight they want to crew rather than asking crewing ‘when is bloggs flying?’ It’s not hard to see in a large airline how with sufficient insider knowledge that this abuse pattern might be difficult to spot.
RYR’s prompt action (and presumably fast review of how the roster changes were managed) send the right message.
There is a big elephant in the room here , because :
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
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You have that story very wrong ATC Watcher. His actions went way beyond "just flirting". The guy in question was guilty of a lot more and the evidence proved it conclusively, which is why he had no option but to "resign". The ladies concerned were highly respected by all their colleagues. You do them a grave injustice.
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There is a big elephant in the room here , because :
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
I very much doubt he is the victim here??
You might have more info, and if indeed it is a reported , and as I said already, the guy deserves what he is getting and more if it is indeed real sexual harassment, I am just quetioning the social media immediate "guilty trial" , while the police said they have received no complaints . That was all, I have no horse in that race, I do not know the guy and do not have any contacts inside RYR.
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting
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As investigation of claims of misconduct in the nature of sexual harassment and sex-based discrimination, and representation of clients confronted with such claims - sometimes both for any given client - were routine portions of my legal practice for a good number of years, a few observations:
A "resignation" label can be slapped onto a separation which otherwise would be a publicly embarrassing firing, of course. Doubtful that the individual here had an executive employment agreement which typically would define how various types of separation (for various reasons) will be handled. Unless it has eluded coverage, it doesn't appear that the individual has proclaimed totally innocent conduct or conduct improper only in the slightest degree.
Also, if as alleged there was deliberate and overt manipulation of crew schedules, imho that is a damning fact. In most harassment cases there is not an opportunity similar to this, to arrange for proximity of a person intended to be subjected to harassment. Taking advantage of situations where the person happens to be present or is usually present, yes - the "bring your draft report to my hotel suite and we'll review it there" fact pattern common in such cases. But arranging schedules is a different level of premeditation.
Maybe just because I'm SLF I think there's also a factor that in the mind of the traveling public, what happens on layovers is the private business of consenting adults, but changing schedules unbeknowst to the other person for purposes of proximity suggests that the one doing the changing is not focused sufficiently on the magenta line, or children thereof.
A "resignation" label can be slapped onto a separation which otherwise would be a publicly embarrassing firing, of course. Doubtful that the individual here had an executive employment agreement which typically would define how various types of separation (for various reasons) will be handled. Unless it has eluded coverage, it doesn't appear that the individual has proclaimed totally innocent conduct or conduct improper only in the slightest degree.
Also, if as alleged there was deliberate and overt manipulation of crew schedules, imho that is a damning fact. In most harassment cases there is not an opportunity similar to this, to arrange for proximity of a person intended to be subjected to harassment. Taking advantage of situations where the person happens to be present or is usually present, yes - the "bring your draft report to my hotel suite and we'll review it there" fact pattern common in such cases. But arranging schedules is a different level of premeditation.
Maybe just because I'm SLF I think there's also a factor that in the mind of the traveling public, what happens on layovers is the private business of consenting adults, but changing schedules unbeknowst to the other person for purposes of proximity suggests that the one doing the changing is not focused sufficiently on the magenta line, or children thereof.
There is a big elephant in the room here , because :
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
I hate trial by media, and in those days of false/fake allegations routinely being made to get "likes" and " buzz" , I am sceptical of what I see on social media and populist press. If the allegations we read are proven to be true, then the guy definitively deserved the boot, but are they excatly as reported here?
But there was an internal company investigation on 8 written complaints and the Chief Pilot was fired after that was completed.
An allegation of workplace harassment does not need to go to the police in order for an employee to be fired.
I have seen a few years back in my outfit one guy I knew well be thrown to the wolves and forced to resign following a couple of allegations made by a couple of women. When the dust came down , it became clear that it it was just flirting , and flirting with the boss goes both ways... But in those years of #me too, it is not politically correct fto mention this anymore.
And especially given the position of power he held and his ability to adversely influence the career of these young women if they chose to reject his advances.
I don’t think that this is anything new. Wasn’t there a predatory Chief Pilot in BA not so long ago that was manipulating rosters to fly with another skippers wife? Where there’s a willy, there’s a way.
Blue_Circle: what you quote was actually posted by ATC Watcher.