Jet2 at London Gatwick - will they move in permanently?

[Magplug]

BA used to be the airline of choice of young guys coming out of training. Even 2-4 years with EZY or RYR was a fair exchange in the knowledge that BA would take you on once you had some experience on the 737 or 320. The golden aspiration was that RHS longhaul and the lifestyle that went with it. Now we have recruitment into BA Euroflyer at LGW giving two hurdles to jump before that LH seat might become a reality.... Firstly, escaping the cheap Euroflyer contract by moving to LHR then another freeze before a move to LH will come into view. In short a move to BA with the aspiration of LH takes far longer today than it might have taken 10 years ago.


The attraction of BA now for those suitably experienced is an early LGW A320 command. Make no mistake.... the current management corps at BA are ambitious and cut-throat. They have a large and homogenous SH fleet and that permits them to work SH pilots like dogs and you are just a number. The lifestyle protections afforded by the former scheduling agreement (Bidline Rules) are now a thing of the past. Consequently BA is no longer a lifestyle choice but merely a stepping stone to be used for advancing your position... if it suits you. If you can get into EF LGW and pass their command course, get a couple of years' command time under your belt then you are a MUCH more saleable commodity worldwide. In this business seniority used to be everything but once you get that 4th stripe it becomes academic. If J2 start looking for crews at LGW and the money is attractive the you will see pilots from both seats leaving BA.

[k.swiss]

Originally Posted by Flying Wild

No, and given the animosity towards Balpa, it never will. However they are working hard to keep crew happy with a Lifestyle 2023 package. They are trialling reduced working patterns (fixed roster) as well as preferences for AM/PM working over this summer. They are trying.

Originally Posted by RARA9

what are you on about ? I know loads of guys at BA looking to leave . I took the jump a few months ago and haven’t looked back . Admittedly not a captain but a LH SFO .
BA just isn’t that great …..

So my thoughts based on your replies?

• BA is no longer the cornerstone it once was, added fact Euroflyer a bunch of cheaters and scammers so everyone wants to leave?
• No union protection, and no prospect of long haul RHS if you do make it into BA.

Here I am thinking after 2-3 years at EZY its better to just stay?!

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

Lots of opportunities outside of LHR/LGW for quick long haul commands. You just need the hours and to open your eyes.

[go-around flap 15]

Plenty of Jet2 pilots in both seats based at STN that live south of London and suffer the M25/Dartford Crossing/M11 commute in order to live in Surrey/Sussex/Kent. They would have no problems with FD crewing if LGW were to happen. The problem is slots, something would have to give - be that TUI scaling back/Euroflyer flunking or easyJet/Wizz downsizing. Neither of those options on their own seems particularly likely in the short term but you never know in this industry...

[Daily Dalaman Dave]

Originally Posted by k.swiss

Who from BA/U2/X3 in their right mind would join ? tell me please.

People who are paid less than J2 offer, of which there are several roles.

Originally Posted by k.swiss

You guys can jump on technicalities all you like. Apart from seasonal no one is leaving.

Any BA Captain even short haul wouldn’t go, kindly reply here if you would.

Technicalities? Lol. I would say that basic pay is more than a technicality! There are several new recruits to jet2 that have left BA, Virgin and EK this year alone.

Oh and I left a comfy gig at BA for J2……..best thing I did and better off too. Maybe take the rose tinted specs off, the world has changed.

[ToCatLady]

Ooooooh goody! It’s been a while since we have had a J2 Vs BA Willy waggle!

J2 will move into LGW when TUI eventually folds. No sooner.

[oceancrosser]

Why isn´t this thread in the Airlines, airports and routes forum? Which is very UK centric and even has its own J2 thread?

[Flitefone]

Originally Posted by ToCatLady

Ooooooh goody! It’s been a while since we have had a J2 Vs BA Willy waggle!

J2 will move into LGW when TUI eventually folds. No sooner.

Jet2 will eventually have a Gatwick base, its a question of when not if. There are no LGW slots available for a summer operation until either - the northern runway in routine use - 2029 - or if before, when easyJet is bought by another carrier such as Jet2, or vice versa to amalgamate the easyjet Holidays and Jet2 Holidays ownership. As an alternative, I wouldn't rule out IAG buying Jet2 at some point either and wrapping in with Euroflyer at Gatwick and expanding the holiday brand to include LHR and LGW (no I don't see Jet2 at LHR ever). Whatever happens Jet2 will end up at Gatwick at some point, but not likely for several years.
FF

[Flying Wild]

Originally Posted by Flitefone

Jet2 will eventually have a Gatwick base, its a question of when not if. There are no LGW slots available for a summer operation until either - the northern runway in routine use - 2029 - or if before, when easyJet is bought by another carrier such as Jet2, or vice versa to amalgamate the easyjet Holidays and Jet2 Holidays ownership. As an alternative, I wouldn't rule out IAG buying Jet2 at some point either and wrapping in with Euroflyer at Gatwick and expanding the holiday brand to include LHR and LGW (no I don't see Jet2 at LHR ever). Whatever happens Jet2 will end up at Gatwick at some point, but not likely for several years.
FF

Jet2 buying Easyjet? IAG buying Jet2? Not in a million years.

Being a bit more realistic, if(when) Tui go under, that will probably provide the impetus for an expansion. Not that I'd wish redundancy on anyone, having been there myself. Also, competition is good. If Tui goes, nobody else is near Jet2 in terms of volume.

[Biffsticksuperhero]

Originally Posted by Flying Wild

Jet2 buying Easyjet? IAG buying Jet2? Not in a million years.

Being a bit more realistic, if(when) Tui go under, that will probably provide the impetus for an expansion. Not that I'd wish redundancy on anyone, having been there myself. Also, competition is good. If Tui goes, nobody else is near Jet2 in terms of volume.

where’s all this TUI going under 🐮💩coming from?

[double-oscar]

Apparently Jet2 management are often telling their employees TUI are going bust. Wishful thinking on their part I think. Although Jet2 has outgrown TUI Airways in the UK, there is so much more to TUI and it has the ability and desire to grow in so many different markets that it is not likely to fail.

[Biffsticksuperhero]

TUI make billions. Jet2 make millions. There’s a difference. Tui is on course to be Covid debt free soon, where as the financial enigma that is jet2 aren’t and are buying 000s of aircraft. So who knows what will happen, can’t see either going anywhere in the interim.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by Biffsticksuperhero

TUI make billions. Jet2 make millions. There’s a difference. Tui is on course to be Covid debt free soon, where as the financial enigma that is jet2 aren’t and are buying 000s of aircraft. So who knows what will happen, can’t see either going anywhere in the interim.

TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.

Firstly Jet2 management don't comment on TUI in any official capacity that I have seen. And there's certainly no speculation about them going bust from management. There's speculation about it in the wider Jet2 workforce, and that's on the back of the share price collapsing 80+% in 5 years, and having over 5BN Euro in debt.

My personal opinion is that TUI has issues, but isn't going anywhere any time soon.

As for Jet2 at Gatwick, until they can go in there with 30+ aircraft and turn the terminal red it's not going to happen.

[Biffsticksuperhero]

Not having a willy waving exercise here but.

[QUOTE=Jonty;11415734]TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.

TUI - €1 billion+
Jet2 - £560 million.

🤷🏼‍♂️ hopefully though the tides are turning and the whole industry improves and no one goes under.

[Jonty]

[QUOTE=Biffsticksuperhero;11415749]Not having a willy waving exercise here but.

Originally Posted by Jonty

TUI don't make billions, they make millions. 2015 was the last time TUI made over a billion.

TUI - €1 billion+
Jet2 - £560 million.

🤷🏼‍♂️ hopefully though the tides are turning and the whole industry improves and no one goes under.

TUI Group Financial Information
Year Revenue Net Profit
2015/16[28] €17.18 billion €1.15 billion
2016/17[28] €18.53 billion €910.9 million
2017/18[28] €19.52 billion €780.2 million
2018/19[28] €18.92 billion €531.9 million
2019/20[28] €7.94 billion -(€3.13) billion
2020/21[28] €4.73 billion -(€2.48) billion
2021/22[28] €16.54 billion -(€0.21) billion

[Biffsticksuperhero]

TUI Group Financial Information
Year Revenue Net Profit
2015/16[28] €17.18 billion €1.15 billion
2016/17[28] €18.53 billion €910.9 million
2017/18[28] €19.52 billion €780.2 million
2018/19[28] €18.92 billion €531.9 million
2019/20[28] €7.94 billion -(€3.13) billion
2020/21[28] €4.73 billion -(€2.48) billion
2021/22[28] €16.54 billion -(€0.21) billion[/QUOTE]

Didn’t TUI just repay approx 750million+ in debt repayment… so not far off being back to the 1billion mark.

Either way, I’m not being dragged into a Jet2 vs TUI argument.

[EPRman]

You’ve obviously too much time on your hands Jonty. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by Biffsticksuperhero

Didn’t TUI just repay approx 750million+ in debt repayment…

They did, by launching a rights issue and massively diluting their current share holders.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by EPRman

You’ve obviously too much time on your hands Jonty. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

I wish I could! unfortunately I'm a share holder!

[Biffsticksuperhero]

Originally Posted by Jonty

They did, by launching a rights issue and massively diluting their current share holders.

The previous rights issues were to create funds to stay afloat without further loans. The rights issue now is to pay the remaining of the loan. The €750mil paid was from the profits. 👍