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Possible terrorist attempt Stockholm

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Possible terrorist attempt Stockholm

Old 30th Aug 2002, 12:13
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It would be helpful if a European Islamic organisation or spokesman could now make a statement that would disassociate the true believers from those who would seek to advance their own perverted views through force.

Silence, in this case, is not golden.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 12:38
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Question

Side point.

Was watching the report from a distance last night. Was the plane a 737 ? I thought I saw an almost white plane with ryanair marking and rear engines ??

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Old 30th Aug 2002, 12:46
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"European muslim organisation"

Lou Scannon:

indeed it would, the problem being that as the Economist recently pointed out, virtually anyone can set up shop in Western Europe, declare themselves an imam, set up a mosque and start teaching anti-Western hatred.

It is much more difficult for the Islamic moderates to claim to be the mainstream as they are only now getting to grips with secular lobbying processes. The same article called for Western governments to assist [except in US for constitutional reasons] the setting up of Islamic theological colleges as most imams are currently taught in the Arab world and take on that political worldview prior to immigrating to the West.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 13:33
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Timzsta said:
"This is a timely reminder, less than a year after Sep 11, that there are those out there who still try, and in this case, came very close to succeeding, to commit acts of terrorism in commercial flights."

The implication is that this was, in fact, a hijacking attempt, or something similar. If they were enroute to an Islamic conference, they would not have made it there had he/they actually hijacked the aircraft. So, what has been determined? Was this another 'error' by a stupid passenger (like that lady in the US last week), or, as Timzsta asserts, and ACTUAL terrorism event?
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 14:01
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Lou Scannon and Semaphore Sam - this story on the BBC website seems relevant to the issues you've raised...

Hijack suspect 'not attending conference'

An organiser of an Islamic conference in Birmingham says it is "highly unlikely" that the man charged with trying to hijack a Ryanair flight in Sweden, was due to attend the conference.
Security officers at Stockholm's Vasteras Airport say they found a handgun in a toiletries bag when they scanned the 29-year-old man's hand luggage.

The man - who was born in Sweden to Tunisian parents - had been trying to board a Ryanair flight to London's Stansted airport.

Swedish Police say he was with a party travelling to an Islamic conference in Birmingham and believe the man was going to hijack the plane.

Abu Khadeejah, one of the organisers of the 6th Islamic National Conference in Small Heath, said he would be "surprised" if the man was attending the three-day event, which begins on Friday.

It is being sponsored by Salafipublications.com.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The one thing Salafipublications.com is known for is refuting and exposing those types of ideologies within the fold of Islam that try to put forward the type of viewpoint that you can hijack and take the lives of innocent individuals."

He added: "It's something that we have even produced a booklet on post September 11.

"Around 20,000 copies were distributed freely among various groups and organisations clarifying the true Islamic position."

Mr Khadeejah said the conference was pay-at-the-door therefore there was no official list of those attending until they turned up on the day, but he had not received any confirmation about anyone from Sweden attending.

Among the topics being discussed at the conference are Islamic fundamentalism, the Islamic creed and the life of the Prophet Mohammed.

Mr Khadeejah said up to 3,000 delegates were expected at the conference.
It’s reassuring to know that although the conference organisers have no list of who's attending they can be reasonably sure that the guy apprehended in Sweden wasn’t on his way to the meeting – simply because he was trying to board an aircraft carrying a gun.

They have no idea who’s coming but he certainly wasn’t…..hmmmm…

Last edited by stagger; 30th Aug 2002 at 21:05.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 16:29
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This was a clear attempt to bring down that Ryanair aircraft...probably on Buckingham palace or the Houses of Parliament.Thanks to the vigilance of the Swedes,it was thwarted but what if it had succeeded?Maybe you'd be a little more understanding of just what the US has suffered this last year(or decade for those with short memories) and not so quick to criticize what has to be done in this war of survival.Its either them or us.You choose.But dont whinge or utter platitudes whilst you're sitting on the fence making up your mind.
I note some snide anti-American remarks on another thread re the proposal to ban foreign flights into DC and NYC on the 911 anniversary.Well,you're entitled.But you only betray your own naivete and gullability.The risk of a copycat attack is much higher than many suppose.With the US airports on high alert,it would not be unreasonable to assume that the terrorists would try their luck on a States-bound foreign carrier.I recently walked thru MXP crew check without being stopped or asked to present ID.
So lets cut the talk of United Nations(what a joke)..we're about as united as a square peg in a round hole anyways.The US will make up its own mind and if you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.WW11 was prolonged by months because Eike was too wrapped up in preserving the Alliance instead of sending his best general(Patton) into the Nazi fray.
The pussy-footing around stops now.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 19:14
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The question that really needs to be asked is when was he highlighted as suspect? Was he profiled and questioned after he checked in then watched as he went through security; or was he picked up at the X-ray machine?
From the information on the BBC he had the classic profile that should have been highlighted the moment he booked his ticket. If it took until the X-ray machine the system had failed at the first hurdle we should thank the operators and all count ourselves lucky.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 19:23
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The aircraft was a Ryanair Boeing 737-800, believe the reg was EI-CSB from what I saw on the TV this lunchtime. That aircraft taxied past me for what must have been the outbound leg to Stockholm on Thursday afternoon as was working out on the "C" stands at Stansted. Rather brings it home to you.

Also seen on the knews that a man was arrested during a fuelling stop at Birmingham on a PIA A310 from Pakistan-Birmingham-somewhere in north america this morning. Aircraft is being thoroughly searched. I wonder if there is any connection, given that the passenger arrested in Stockholm claimed he was trying to reach Birmingham.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 19:28
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A man arrested in Sweden on suspicion of intending to hijack a plane bound for Britain has denied any knowledge of a gun in his
luggage.


"We believe he was going to hijack the plane,"
police spokesman Ulf Palm said.

The man has been preliminarily charged with planning to hijack a plane, an offence which carries a sentance of between six months and life imprisonment.

The suspect has previous convictions for theft and assault,

Airport police officer Anders Fryksell told the AFP news agency that the man had denied any knowledge of the weapon.

"He says he doesn't know how the weapon ended up in his luggage," he said.

"He doesn't explain anything, he just denies everything."

Thanks to the Swedes for their vigilance and thanks to the idiot himself for being terminally STUPID
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 19:44
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Rananim, this sounds like a wholsesale windup but, assuming that you are for real ... you say
This was a clear attempt to bring down that Ryanair aircraft... probably on Buckingham palace or the Houses of Parliament. Thanks to the vigilance of the Swedes, it was thwarted but what if it had succeeded?
At the present time, the Swedish Police state that they think it was a hijack attempt but you state that it was. The extra information that you have will doubtless be used in court when the man comes to trial.

You go on:
The pussy-footing around stops now.
Perhaps what you meant to say was, "The blind assumption that we know what is correct, even if we are on the other side of the Atlantic, and the belief that we have the right to direct action as we want."

Should Stop Now.

Last edited by PAXboy; 30th Aug 2002 at 19:49.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 20:03
  #31 (permalink)  

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Rananim

....but what if it had succeeded?Maybe you'd be a little more understanding of just what the US has suffered this last year
I think it might be more accurate to say that the US now knows what the rest of the world has been contending with for the last 30 years.

Remind me where a substantial proportion of the IRA's funding came from, would you?
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 20:18
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Hmmm. Yup, dodgy thing to happen. Not terribly worrying mind you. Want to see worrying?

It raises the point - that we are still very much at risk from these moslems.
Hmmm. Yes, quite. Of course, I personally feel at risk from all you religious freaks. Afterlife. *pftttt*

Who needs weapons if you have 20 mad men screaming and kicking around in the cabin. If you can´t smuggle weapons across security, you can certainly get 20 ´honnest´ passengers with a valid boarding pass through security.
Yes. He may be innocent, unarmed, peaceful, not bothering anyone, but NOOOOOOOOOOOO! - he's a muslim!!! Shoot the bastard!!! Hurry!!! He might be thinking about taking over the world!!!! Oh, wait - that's the russians, isn't it?

Those that think passengers would overwhelme terrorists need to have a rethink in my opinion. How do you overwhelme 20 determined and motivated hijackers?
But that's easy! You just convert to islam and be one of them! *sheesh* You so stuuuupid!!!



From the information on the BBC he had the classic profile that should have been highlighted the moment he booked his ticket. If it took until the X-ray machine the system had failed at the first hurdle we should thank the operators and all count ourselves lucky.
Ah, profiling. That wonderful way of watching people because they have the same skin colour as someone else that did something bad once. Pity, really, that it works as well as chocolate frying pans...

Maybe you'd be a little more understanding of just what the US has suffered this last year(or decade for those with short memories) and not so quick to criticize what has to be done in this war of survival.Its either them or us.You choose.But dont whinge or utter platitudes whilst you're sitting on the fence making up your mind.


The US will make up its own mind and if you're not part of the solution,you're part of the problem.WW11 was prolonged by months because Eike was too wrapped up in preserving the Alliance instead of sending his best general(Patton) into the Nazi fray.
The pussy-footing around stops now.


Brenoch and Whisky Zulu,

Your comments are misguided. I feel that to make a mockery of something that could have been a serious situation (it COULD have been, but thankfully wasn't) is very incorrect.

Those members of this forum who have perhaps been directly affected by terrorism acts won't thank you for your comments either!!
Brenoch and Whisky Zulu,
As a member of this forum who grew up in a country that had an active terrorist problem from four hundred years before he was born and who grew up getting used to hearing of parents being shot in front of their children in their homes, kneecappings by the gross, people ordered to leave the country or have their family killed, or that old favorite, 17-year-olds being crucified with re-bars from a building site, I offically thank you for doing the best thing possible in the situation - poking fun at it. If the expletive deletor on the site wasn't censoring me, I could tell you what I think of the ignorant, self-important, puffed-up, bloodthirsty, arrogant, self-rightous, annoying, loud, obnoxious, racist, bigoted, myopic, sabre-rattling, goat-loving sons of brothers that have been posting here like they were members of the nationalist socialist party in Munich in the 1930s.


Honestly, why weren't these posts moderated? Capt PPRuNe, CrashDive, PPRuNe Towers, Sick Squid, are you conducting a social experiment in mob mentality or trying to raise the level of racial bigotry in the forum?

BTW, I know all those quotes came from different people - I don't care. You're all just as bad. Someone got arrested on a plane with a gun, which may or may not have been real. None knows who he's connected to, what his intentions were, or what his religion is or if that even has anything to do with his actions. In response, we get postings that don't bother holding short of branding a large segment of the world's population as bloodthirsty ignorant terrorists, a threat to be eliminated. Frankly, if you want a group like that, you need to look to US foreign policy from the last sixty years.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 20:37
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Yeh, sure Mossad planted the gun there.

Awful lot of coincidences though isn't there.

Maybe if that degree of vigilance had been in place before Sept 11 it wouldn't have happened.

It always strikes me as strange that nobody ever criticises (or evne mentions now) what was Soviet communist foreign policy up to the fall of the USSR. All the world's ills are now a result of the US foreign policy over the last 60 years! Amazing!
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 21:11
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This whole incident does rather beg the question whether a 737 makes the same size hole no matter what colour scheme it happens to have!

When the relevent authorities work that out maybe we will see all operators into and out of UK airspace being forced to modify cockpit doors to the new UK requirements. Otherwise the whole modification programe for UK registered aircraft could prove to be a waste of time and money.

At approx. £40000 a door MOL's going to have to sell a lot of £9.99 tickets
 
Old 30th Aug 2002, 21:20
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M. Mouse
Couldn't agree more. We in Europe have been fighting the 'War on Terrorism' for the last 30/40 years against groups such as the IRA,PIRA,INLA,ETA,RAF,Red Brigade,PLO,Black September,UDA etc etc etc.
Most of the money for the IRA groups coming from, guess who? the good 'ol US of A and going to, guess who? Col Gaddafi.
Welcome to the real world.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 22:56
  #36 (permalink)  

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Firstly, a warning to those xenophobes suffering from acute paranoia, either get a grip of yourselves and start posting something sensible or else take your racial prejudice and phobias elsewhere.

Secondly, I find it rather startling that no one has tried to analyse this incident a bit more clearly. We do not know all the facts except what the press have reported, so, those of you with some form of divine perception can go and preside over a different audience, preferably on a different website.

From the mixed reports I have read, it would appear that the man actually was already in his seat on the a/c. Everyone was ordered off and had to identify their baggage, presumably checked-in bags. If that is the case then it is going to be very difficult to hijack the a/c if your gun is in the hold. So, it would seem that this man had a gun in his washbag, inside his checked in case and NOT in his hand baggage.

Because here in Europe all hold baggage has to be X-rayed and has been required so for several years, the system works. What may not be clear is the intent of this man once he arrived in the UK. He may just have been a sacrificial lamb (martyr) for a sinister cause who was used to 'test' the security system. He may have been trying to get the gun through so that on arrival it could be secreted 'semi-airside' for an accomplice to pick up and use somewhere else. He may just be an innocent mule who had the weapon planted without his knowledge. Thankfully we still have a legal system that presumes innocence until proven guilty and not the kangaroo court some posters on here would advocate.

What you have to realise is that a serious terrorist attempt takes a lot of time to plan and a lot of people to assist. An individual working on his own, whilst still a threat, is much less likely to achieve success. Any terrorist trying to stage another 'catastrophe' will probably come at us from a totally different and unexpected direction. It will take some of the best thinkers and planners to thwart all the serious, future attempts to stage the next mass murder of innocents. Unfortunately, because it has to take place in secrecy I doubt most politicians in power have the cojones to spend the money required and would rather squander it on the current 'cosmetic' security which is much more visible and affords them more soundbite opportunities.

Unless we have people in government who are prepared to provide the resources to seriously set up aviation security and use their sources of intelligence at all levels, not just the cosmetic farce that we have at the moment with private companies employing people on little more than minimum wage with minimal training, then it is only a matter of time before another cell or group stage another attack. Profiling, done by highly trained, intelligent people together with the latest technology that is available to assist them is the first step. Done properly with planning I don't think it will take any longer to check-in for most pax than it does now with the ridiculous queues we see at any major airport when waiting to pass through 'security' when it is busy.

We will still need some form of x-raying hand baggage and scanning of pax, but not as the last resort to stop a terrorist but to prevent the minority of the populace who are too stupid to realise that some items are just not acceptable in the cabin even though they never intended to use those items in an attack. All this confiscation of nail clippers is a petty show of futility by beaurocrats who have little comprehension of the operational side of our jobs, who have implemented rules based on a knee-jerk reaction and a need to be seen to be doing something and getting as many soundbites out it as possible. There will still be regular cases of 'air-rage' because of alcohol, nicotine withdrawal, drug abuse or plain psychotic behaviour. We train our cabin crews to deal with these incidents whilst we endeavour to get the a/c to the nearest airport so the the authorities will hopefully deal with the individuals. We have scanning of hold baggage to prevent terrorists planting bombs or smuggling weapons but what we don't appear to have is an integrated intelligence gathering service combined with a highly trained, government supported aviation security service who are able to use the proven methods of using that intelligence for thwarting highly organised attacks by well funded terrorist groups. Once the highly organised terrorist is on the a/c it is too late.

At the end of the day unless everyone is prepared to pay for this type of security and the politicos have the sincerety to push this through to the end, all we will have is the current situation which stifles our industry for very little increase in REAL security. Soundbite politics and political correctness will prevail and we will realise that big business and government would rather take the risk of another catastrophe than spend the serious money that it takes.

'Rant off'. Discuss. (Xenophobes not welcome)
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 23:50
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747 - I think your suggestion would is quite unworkable and a bit off the the limits. Discrimination - can you begin to imagine the lawsuits?

Whilst 9/11 is very much to the fore, it has been suggested that this was an isolated incident by someone who is suffering from serious mental problems - none of the other pax were considered a threat - according to media reports.
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Old 30th Aug 2002, 23:58
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I have only just started to read this subject and already,within just FOUR posts,there are already 2 morons making ridiculous 'slates' on Ryanair.This is UNBELIEVABLE!For christ's sake!surely you can recognise how potentially serious this incident could have been.When will you bunch of COMPLETE idiots realise that Ryanair are no different from any other airline,not only from the threats they face from terrorism,but the regulations they need to comply with,the standards of crew training,the standards of maintenance etc etc.This could have been BA,GO,BUZZ,BMI,BRITANNIA,the list goes on.Just GROW UP.I apologise if these things have been said in the rest of the topic,but i haven't got that far.If no other morons have made similar comments then i will look pretty stupid.If so i will be surprised.

Having read the rest of the post,just to raise the mood a little,with respect to my previous post,i think that 'standard of maintenance' should be placed above 'standard of crew training'!!!
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Old 31st Aug 2002, 02:30
  #39 (permalink)  
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Maybe some sort of probe or whatnot.

Security is a multilevel thing.
ARmed cockpit is a controvertial things but these videos are worth seeing and thinking about for the debate.

Cheers
Wino
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Old 31st Aug 2002, 03:55
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>>it would seem that this man had a gun in his washbag, inside his checked in case and NOT in his hand baggage.<<

Danny, check the Times today:


>>Kerim Chatty, a keep-fit fanatic of Tunisian origin, was found with a loaded gun in his hand luggage as he arrived late to catch the Ryanair flight <<
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