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USA flights stopped. FAA computer outage.

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USA flights stopped. FAA computer outage.

Old 11th Jan 2023, 16:02
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
Well taxying into a closed taxi way or ignoring WIP somewhere can ruin your day if no-one tells you before . I also understand that in the US you can have commercial operations in non-towered airpports . and there are legal considerations too as mentioned above.
Which is the point of my sarcastic point as the important ones are drowned out by the CYA nonsense.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 16:17
  #22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Consol
Which is the point of my sarcastic point as the important ones are drowned out by the CYA nonsense.
Sorry missed your point , NOTAM nonsense?, tell me about it ! the OPSGRPOUP runs a very good action against this CYA , or as we say more politely here " administrative umbrella " that has reached ICAO , but the old lady is very slow....but we'll get there one day ..
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 16:44
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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IT asks “Did you try turning off and on again ? “
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 18:04
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Used to have cleaners unplug computers so they could vacuum. Bad enough, but they would only unplug one of them and the back-EMF noise would kill the other one. There was a service contract, but it still lost the use of a computer until it was repaired.

Being as this is the FAA, a hamster died on its wheel and they needed to requisition a new hamster.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 19:43
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I'm not suggesting this is what happened, but it would not surprise me if this was the result of a software or operating system upgrade gone sideways or misconfiguration of a router or other network device.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 20:30
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Or god forbid you did not have to play hunt the needle in the haystack through 30 pages of irrelevant information to find anything you really needed to know. My personal least favorite pages were where the Turks and Greeks were using it to posture about their border. The NOTAM system has been pretty much unfit for purpose for a long time. Maybe this will focus a bit of attention on a very poor system and somebody will be motivated to make some improvements, but somehow I doubt it.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 22:01
  #27 (permalink)  
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I often wonder if these things are coincidental or if foreign powers are hacking us?
Post offices in Northern Ireland hit by computer problems - BBC News
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 22:03
  #28 (permalink)  
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Cybersecurity meets aeronautical data. What could go wrong?

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Old 11th Jan 2023, 22:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bafanguy
Well, it used to be called Notice To Airmen...but wokeness changed it to "missions".
Yep, Mayor Pete found it critically important to change the definition to be properly woke. Making sure the system actually worked, not so much

Almost a year ago, the Federal Aviation Authority, under the helm of transportation secretary Pete Buttigieg, announced that the aviation briefing known as NOTAM, or Notice to Airmen, would undergo a name change. NOTAMs are unclassified notices distributed from an aviation authority to all pilots that contain essential information regarding conditions, hazards, system concerns, or other flight operations. NOTAM, Mayor Pete’s Department of Transportation declared, wasn’t gender inclusive and, as of December 2, 2021, it should henceforth be referred to Notice to Air Missions, not Airmen.While Mayor Pete preoccupied his department with scrubbing the bigotry out of an acronym, it never occurred to the Biden administration’s Chief Diversity Hire that the system itself might need some tending-to. That was until this morning when an outage caused the NOTAM system to fail and all flights in the US were grounded for several hours, something that hasn’t happened since 9/11.

Today’s FAA system failure came just weeks after Southwest Airlines ruined Christmas when its outdated computer system led to thousands of canceled flights — something that the transportation secretary brazenly mocked, seemingly unaware that the Biden administration had given billions of dollars in handouts to Southwest, with no oversight. As he wagged his finger at the airline, Mayor Pete was oblivious that his own computers might need a tune-up.
Today’s FAA system failure came just weeks after Southwest Airlines ruined Christmas when its outdated computer system led to thousands of canceled flights — something that the transportation secretary brazenly mocked, seemingly unaware that the Biden administration had given billions of dollars in handouts to Southwest, with no oversight. As he wagged his finger at the airline, Mayor Pete was oblivious that his own computers might need a tune-up.
It is a human trait to focus on cheap and lofty rhetoric rather than costly, earthy reality. It is a bureaucratic characteristic to rail against the trifling misdemeanor rather than address the often-dangerous felony. And it is political habit to mask one’s own failures by lecturing others on their supposed shortcomings. Ambitious elected officials often manage to do all three.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 00:59
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Attention from Congress

Chairman of House Transportation and Infrastructure, Rep. Sam Graves (R. - Missouri 6th) issued this statement.

"Americans awoke this morning to the largest ground stop of our National Airspace System since 9/11. While it appears at this time that the Notice to Air Missions – or NOTAM – system malfunction was not the result of a cybersecurity breach, it highlights a huge vulnerability in our air transportation system. Just as Southwest’s widespread disruption just a few weeks ago was inexcusable, so too is the DOT’s and FAA’s failure to properly maintain and operate the air traffic control system.

“This incident also underscores the number of empty desks and vacant offices at the FAA. Centuries of combined experience has gone out the door in the past several years and far too few of these positions have been filled. The FAA does not run on autopilot – it needs skilled, dedicated, and permanent leadership in positions across the agency, starting with the Administrator’s office. It’s been nearly a year since the FAA has had a permanent Administrator, and with the current nominee’s troubling resume, the Biden Administration seems to think this lack of qualified leadership can go on indefinitely.

“I have many questions about what transpired today, and I expect the FAA to provide a full briefing to Members of Congress as soon as they learn more. I will also be leading an oversight letter with my colleagues to make sure that we know what went wrong, who’s responsible, and how this is going to be prevented in the future. And just as DOT expected Southwest to make passengers whole after their leadership failures, I expect a prompt update on DOT’s efforts to do right by the passengers it has wronged.”
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 03:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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The problem has been attributed thusly

"An engineer “replaced one file with another,” the official said, not realizing the mistake was being made. As the systems began showing problems and ultimately failed, FAA staff feverishly tried to figure out what had gone wrong. The engineer who made the error did not realize what had happened."

https://abcnews.go.com/US/computer-f...ry?id=96358202

It doesn't seem like lack of maintenance, just fat fingers. Good on Rep. Graves for tying up legislative efforts and grandstanding for an IT fix. Now if he will step up and deal with the millions of hours lost each year to errors users make with Excel, that would be worthwhile. From past experience, I don't want a leadership position dealing with an IT problem.

For those thinking redundancy would help - that simply piles on the problems of synchronization and the problems of pushing out-of-date or conflicting information which is why each user could not simply record and use their stored list on their own.

Anyone already in the FAA who wants to be in these particular cross-hairs: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/697213300

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Old 12th Jan 2023, 03:39
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What legislative efforts are being put at risk of getting "tied up?", and where in the Committee Chairman's statement do you see any suggestion or indication he intends to micromanage IT matters? That certainly hasn't been his record on the Committee to date.

Certainly the statement has, or is intended to have, pretty blunt political impact. But, so what? After the Secretary's remarks about Southwest - widely seen as cheap shots or at least highly opportunist on his part - the other side gets its turn too.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 03:54
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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NOTAM, Mayor Pete’s Department of Transportation declared, wasn’t gender inclusive and, as of December 2, 2021, it should henceforth be referred to Notice to Air Missions, not Airmen

Airmen Certification

Verification of Airmen Certificate Information

So will this change to "Airmissionaries"?
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 04:30
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3
MechEngin
What legislative efforts are being put at risk of getting "tied up?", and where in the Committee Chairman's statement do you see any suggestion or indication he intends to micromanage IT matters? That certainly hasn't been his record on the Committee to date.

Certainly the statement has, or is intended to have, pretty blunt political impact. But, so what? After the Secretary's remarks about Southwest - widely seen as cheap shots or at least highly opportunist on his part - the other side gets its turn too.
He could do something else that does require legislation, something productive, which this does not. It sounds like staffers will set up hearings, demanding appearances from people who are there to gain him notoriety and not to fix problems. He was complaining that there wasn't an FAA head to do the micromanaging. He would, of course, not dirty his hands. He seems really quiet about most things, though he has tried to get GA pilots with failed medicals back into the pilot seat.

The current acting administrator seems sufficiently qualified https://www.faa.gov/about/key_officials/nolen so Rep. Graves is even farther off base with his suggestion that the office is empty and no one is running the operation.

Sure - it's funny that Pete got a pie in the face and should also have kept it to himself. I'd have gone with "It's a private business and no one died. Next question."

The FAA goof-up is a flaw that existed but didn't emerge when Elaine (with a literal connection to the Senate) was in charge, just she was lucky enough to sit through an administration that did far worse for air travel.

In any case the adult response to a cheap shot is not another cheap shot. If Rep. Graves knew something about software management in the last 21 years in office he should have brought it up.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 05:09
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Originally Posted by ChiChi1895
Since I live in the States, Notice to Air Missions just does not have the ring to the ears as Notice to Airmen. Between this and the Southwest meltdown, is anyone changing their summer holidays in the United States?
I totally agree! I feel like you can say either one for it though.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 07:19
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A corrupted database is apparently to blame. Though this raises questions as to
1. How the database became corrupted
2.What mechanisms are in pace to detect corruption
3.Whether any shadow copy is in place (or should be) for failover in such a circumstance

FAA grounds all US departures over critical systems outage • The Register
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 07:32
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Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3
"Americans awoke this morning to the largest ground stop of our National Airspace System since 9/11. While it appears at this time that the Notice to Air Missions – or NOTAM – system malfunction was not the result of a cybersecurity breach"
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 09:07
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Maninthebar
A corrupted database is apparently to blame. Though this raises questions as to
1. How the database became corrupted
2.What mechanisms are in pace to detect corruption
3.Whether any shadow copy is in place (or should be) for failover in such a circumstance
FAA grounds all US departures over critical systems outage • The Register
It would seem from various reports that a corrupted file or database update was uploaded into the system. Since such updates occurr normaly in the middle of the night, as it was the case here , I suspect a databse upgrade..
If indeed this is the case it brings a few questions : when/how the file or the update was tested, passed safety analysis, was validated and who signed it to go on live.

I have seen munerous ATC systems breakdown due to wrong or poorly tested software updates in my career that I would not be surprised if this was the case here. Back up ? Ah !. cost lots of money, never used , not maintained, etc.. Not saying this was the case here or in the FAA, but that is what I experienced elesewhere. I also see sub contracting IT maintenance and even software development and updates transfered to the lowest bidder , often not even located in your own country . (good example is lastest large ATC system failure in Switserland )
Reducing costs has become the mantra everywhere nowadays , but as long as the general public will continue to blelieve that 50$ tickets are the norm and expect this , and that a good and successful manager is someone that reduces staff and costs , nothing is likely to change much .

,,

Last edited by ATC Watcher; 12th Jan 2023 at 10:41. Reason: typos
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 10:50
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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MechEngr

Reverse order.
Not in Washington, it isn't ... the response among adults in D.C. to a cheap shot is to wrestle in the ring into which your opponent or challenger has thrown you. The Committee has not only oversight roles but will originate the reauthorization bill (if one moves forward), as I'm sure you know, making it completely germane for the incoming Chairman to level the playing field of current official pronouncements, whether pricey, cheap or indeterminant.

What relevance may be found in former Sec'y Chao's good fortune in not having this evidently - from comments on cause and effect of what actually took place- unexciting I.T. process go wrong on her watch, frankly eludes me.

What private business, as precursor to the nice deflection of "next question", are you referring to? Was the I.T. process here run by a federal contractor? - but that would hardly place oversight out of bounds.

As for the Administrator role ..... it's great when a critic can take unmeasured liberties with what a public official actually said. Personally I think Mr. Nolen would serve in the fully authorized role just fine, given his record, but the Chairman didn't say otherwise. The jab he gave the WH was about the lack of a successful nominee for Administrator - and if your view is that not having a fully authorized head of such a federal agency in office has no impact on leadership of that agency - which was the point of that part of the Chairman's statement - I guess it's down to agreeing to disagree.

I lack knowledge sufficient to question whether the Chairman has or has not tinkered improperly with GA matters, so I'll pass on that. But to dig at the Chairman for not doing the serious business of legislating because he issued that statement, is surprisingly cynical even for this forum. Of course there will be hearings and of course observers aplenty will say it's all notoriety and staff careerists and so on. Yet hearings are part of the legislative process. The Congress just opened this session, and in the wake of the Southwest meltdown (so-called), this statement was pretty nominal. There also are consumer protection measures in play, as everyone is aware, and so that fact also makes a statement now - even as we await progress on a reauthorization bill if that is going to move forward - quite nominal. Not least, let's see what there may be to object to in the oversight letter, forthcoming, according to the statement.

I'll poke fun at Congress-missions as much as anyone when I think they deserve it but in this case, the Chairman was just fulfilling the expected slot associated with the office (at Committee) he now holds.
Incidentally, in the several days of hearings or among the reams of reports and documents at House T&I about the 737 MAX, did you find anything like grandstanding on this Reprsentative's part?
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 11:10
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@ uffington
„Notice to airmen“ is also still in my memory
You are 68 and I am 69.
Obviously this „Air mission“ used today is just „modern“ talking. with no pragmatic sense behind.
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