Co-pilot exits the aircraft during the approach for an emergency landing...
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Unlikely that the co-pilot jumped from 3800' over no water at 175 MPH. Flight looks straight and level at that point.
(I captured some screenshots but cannot post them. See
(I captured some screenshots but cannot post them. See
35°37'50.7"N 78°46'47.0"W
35.630755, -78.779732
and 02:49 PM of flight.}35.630755, -78.779732
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Better article from the local press, which they claim they will update regularly, repeats the 'jump' testimony, without the 'body of water' bit:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...264036966.html
Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-...s-authorities/
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...264036966.html
Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-...s-authorities/
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It’s a contractor that does work for the US spec ops community. That’s why the flight aware tracks are strange. Multiple jump drops that day.
Most likely he dropped the ramp to check the gear. Didn’t put a harness on. Unnecessary and regrettable loss of life.
Most likely he dropped the ramp to check the gear. Didn’t put a harness on. Unnecessary and regrettable loss of life.
Better article from the local press, which they claim they will update regularly, repeats the 'jump' testimony, without the 'body of water' bit:
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...264036966.html
Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-...s-authorities/
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/lo...264036966.html
Edited to add: here's another link from an industry magazine: https://www.flyingmag.com/co-pilots-...s-authorities/
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Local news channel now reporting use of the word 'jump' by the pilot in communications with the tower:
https://www.wral.com/man-told-rdu-to...ding/20400157/
""I am sure the pilot is going to be shaken up," an FAA employee said. "I have no idea.
"He literally just said, 'My pilot just jumped out.'"
No idea if this is what happened, but that's what's being reported.
https://www.wral.com/man-told-rdu-to...ding/20400157/
""I am sure the pilot is going to be shaken up," an FAA employee said. "I have no idea.
"He literally just said, 'My pilot just jumped out.'"
No idea if this is what happened, but that's what's being reported.
Eutychus , that was a useful link, thanks.
The discussion between tower and emergency services was informative, particularly around the conveyance and determination of co-ordinates in order to identify a ground location.
In the interests of education I brought up Google Earth (given it's likely a tool that is available to most people) and attempted to follow the conversation in order to see how easily I could find the location as if I were at the emergency services end.
I - emphatically - make no negative comment, but from what I heard, and in trying to put myself in the seat, it appeared to me that it would be very useful to have a common co-ordinate system available to both ATC and emergency services, and for those operating each end to have training in that. A QRH for such events would seem to be very useful, even if it did nothing more than state what the co-ordinate format is (and, if necessary, how to convert/input that into a common system).
While this is without a doubt a particularly unusual and sad event, I'd expect such information to be very useful for a range of future possible events - and that it's the sort of communication that may need to go both ways (ie. emergency services communicating co-ordinates to ATC and/or operating aircraft).
FP.
The discussion between tower and emergency services was informative, particularly around the conveyance and determination of co-ordinates in order to identify a ground location.
In the interests of education I brought up Google Earth (given it's likely a tool that is available to most people) and attempted to follow the conversation in order to see how easily I could find the location as if I were at the emergency services end.
I - emphatically - make no negative comment, but from what I heard, and in trying to put myself in the seat, it appeared to me that it would be very useful to have a common co-ordinate system available to both ATC and emergency services, and for those operating each end to have training in that. A QRH for such events would seem to be very useful, even if it did nothing more than state what the co-ordinate format is (and, if necessary, how to convert/input that into a common system).
While this is without a doubt a particularly unusual and sad event, I'd expect such information to be very useful for a range of future possible events - and that it's the sort of communication that may need to go both ways (ie. emergency services communicating co-ordinates to ATC and/or operating aircraft).
FP.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What3words
This would seem to solve part of the problem, provided everyone subscribes to it.
This would seem to solve part of the problem, provided everyone subscribes to it.
Thurston County Sheriff's Office and Northwest Helicopters used a Radial/Distance system based upon the Olympia Airport.
That allowed for a quick departure of the Helicopter but still required the use of a County Road Map of some kind to find the actual address.
On scene coordinator was done by use of Police/Fire Department/EMS radio frequencies.
Helicopter EMS operations have used similar methods throughout the country as well when responding to Scene Calls such as automobile accidents or remote location accident scenes.
The Navy and Air Force used TACAN for generations.....using bearing and distance data.
That allowed for a quick departure of the Helicopter but still required the use of a County Road Map of some kind to find the actual address.
On scene coordinator was done by use of Police/Fire Department/EMS radio frequencies.
Helicopter EMS operations have used similar methods throughout the country as well when responding to Scene Calls such as automobile accidents or remote location accident scenes.
The Navy and Air Force used TACAN for generations.....using bearing and distance data.
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The location of the co-pilot's body was ultimately called in from the ground, neighbors hearing the noise "flagged down" the authorities. So it must have been that he was first found, then his finding must have been connected to the search.
If you go by the FAA-to-911 call coordinates, they are off by over 2 miles. That would make for a large search area to find a body as most of it is undeveloped. Without the neighbor report, the search might have gone on for much longer.
If you go by the FAA-to-911 call coordinates, they are off by over 2 miles. That would make for a large search area to find a body as most of it is undeveloped. Without the neighbor report, the search might have gone on for much longer.
If it is true that the rear door cannot be opened from the cockpit, and if it is true that they were landing after a drop, (both previously reported) the door would have been open and the ramp down when the unfortunate pilot left his seat.
It's not unusual for jump aircraft to descend with the door open. There is usually no one left to close it.
It's not unusual for jump aircraft to descend with the door open. There is usually no one left to close it.
Last edited by EXDAC; 4th Aug 2022 at 21:52.
As this is rumour network; I will add to it:
-it seems to me there are two options:
-after botched landing, copilot went to inspect the damage and accidentally fell out ( dont`know where from, as on landing videos/photos there is no ramp/door open)
-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.
At my place, it is MANDATORY for parachute drop pilots to wear a parachute - there was more than one instance in the past, that I am aware of, that a parachuting incident caused an out-of-control situation that required everybody to bail out. (example: due to premature/unintentional opening of parachute while at the door, canopy caught into horizontal stabilizer, jammed elevator, added drag and airplane was diving vertically a few seconds later with elevator controls firmly jammed by fabric, wedged between elevator horn and stabilizer.)
-it seems to me there are two options:
-after botched landing, copilot went to inspect the damage and accidentally fell out ( dont`know where from, as on landing videos/photos there is no ramp/door open)
-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.
At my place, it is MANDATORY for parachute drop pilots to wear a parachute - there was more than one instance in the past, that I am aware of, that a parachuting incident caused an out-of-control situation that required everybody to bail out. (example: due to premature/unintentional opening of parachute while at the door, canopy caught into horizontal stabilizer, jammed elevator, added drag and airplane was diving vertically a few seconds later with elevator controls firmly jammed by fabric, wedged between elevator horn and stabilizer.)
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At my place, it is MANDATORY for parachute drop pilots to wear a parachute
USAF loadmaster training (back in the stone age when I took the course) included an admonition never to approach an open door or ramp in flight without wearing either a harness or a parachute. No idea if either was available to the crew involved.
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Capt says co-pilot was very upset about his hard landing.
NTSB releases initial report on death of Charles Hew Crooks | Raleigh News & Observer (newsobserver.com)
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NTSB releases initial report on death of Charles Hew Crooks | Raleigh News & Observer (newsobserver.com)
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It seems that the option 2 in my post #31 was the correct one. So sad.
-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.
-after botched landing, that obviously caused damage to the airplane (maybe not only wheel, but considerable more) this young lad, that was PF during landing, completelly froze, realizing that he caused quite some damage, etc. and bailed out of terrible situation-literally.
There was an incident in Canada many years ago ( mid 60s..early 70s . I was told about it by one of the folks involved.
Helicopter on a geological exploration contract goes missing.
Search of the planned flight path finds the female passenger dead with horrific head injuries.
Further search finds helicopter many miles from expected flight path completely destroyed, rotor barely turning upon impact, no fire, pilot deceased.
The pilot and the female geologist had started a relationship during the summer.
From evidence such as the location of the body and skid marks it appeared she had exited the helicopter, removed her equipment from the cargo rack moved slightly uphill and had been stuck by the blade tip.
It was supposed that the pilot, in guilt, shock and grief, had taken off and flown around in a daze until the helicopter ran out of fuel.
The pilot did not lower the collective to enter autorotation and the aircraft impacted the terrain in a steep, nose-down attitude.
Other people in the camp indicated that the 2 were very happy together and were making plans for a future together.
A very sad case.
Helicopter on a geological exploration contract goes missing.
Search of the planned flight path finds the female passenger dead with horrific head injuries.
Further search finds helicopter many miles from expected flight path completely destroyed, rotor barely turning upon impact, no fire, pilot deceased.
The pilot and the female geologist had started a relationship during the summer.
From evidence such as the location of the body and skid marks it appeared she had exited the helicopter, removed her equipment from the cargo rack moved slightly uphill and had been stuck by the blade tip.
It was supposed that the pilot, in guilt, shock and grief, had taken off and flown around in a daze until the helicopter ran out of fuel.
The pilot did not lower the collective to enter autorotation and the aircraft impacted the terrain in a steep, nose-down attitude.
Other people in the camp indicated that the 2 were very happy together and were making plans for a future together.
A very sad case.