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Access to cargo bay

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Access to cargo bay

Old 23rd Jul 2022, 10:50
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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The 747 MEC (under the first class cabin and accessible through the floor ) had a large panel on either side to give access to the fwd freight bay. Unfortunately each panel had a zillion fasteners and once open you faced the fwd end of the leading container. Not normally an option.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 11:22
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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A350 has a door

The A350 has a cargo access door.
youtube-> watch?v=LxS2RR-Vx_s
Will not be useful if a container is just behind it.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 16:22
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Nutloose - Reef the VC10. I've used this to exit and enter the aircraft in the absence of steps on more than one occasion. Also, it was possible to get into the rear cargo hold through a door between the rear toilets into the 'boiler room' on the ones that weren't converted to tankers. In the film 'Catch me if you Can', Frank Abignale was seen to escape from a B707 through a toilet at JFK. This would have been impossible. In the book, he mentions it was actually a VC10 where it would have been quite possible, although quite a long drop from the rear cargo hatch.

I can also confirm the Airbus A300, A310, A330, A340 and the B747 have doors from the radio electrics bay into the forward baggage hold.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 18:17
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Dan.

Congratulations for getting "...escape from a B707 through a toilet " and "...a long drop from the rear cargo hatch." into the same paragraph!
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 18:29
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Did a widebody have a lift for the cabin crew to go bellow somewhere?
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 18:34
  #26 (permalink)  
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Our two L1011's had a lift to a below decks galley, and stairs to a below deck lounge.
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Old 23rd Jul 2022, 20:01
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Some DC-10s had lifts to a lower galley in part of the fwd cargo hold. Laker and World airways I know of.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 00:03
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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This video would suggest you can access the cargo compartment and nose wheel on the A350z however if the Cargo hold was full you would have trouble.

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Old 24th Jul 2022, 07:58
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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A couple of the Tommy Cook A300s (Deceased, Manchester, 2020) had downstarirs bogs with a hatch through to the cargo bay. I never saw them in service but we used the hatches when we were ripping them up for spares.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 11:00
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Brake Fan,
Thanks for the geography lesson on the B707. The grating to access lower 41 is indeed behind Capt seat. To open it you needed to be a few clicks fwd on the Capt seat so the obs seat could be tilted fwd to clear the grating as it was lifted to open. This grating is under the fwd end of the Nav table.
About the NLG pins on the B707. There are 2 used. The 1 I described is the only 1 you would dare use for towing coz it physically fits into both sides of the knuckle on the oleo brace and prevents any movement towards retraction. Because the pin fits through the brace knuckle it is towards the top of the NLG well and hence quite a way from the ground, a couple of metres at least. Enter the bicycle handle on the opposite end of the long rod from the actual pin so you have control over it to guide the pin into the knuckle. The handle bar bit rested on the cover of the NLG steering actuators and was an excellent place from which to hang your red flag. The other, I think alluded to by the story, is a little bayonet T handle inserted on the left side of the NLG on the skin of the a/c about half way along the NLG cutout as I recall it. I also recall that it loads up the knuckle to prevent movement in the retract direction. Most unreliable bit of kit. The T handle was only used for static loads like parking and was simply unsafe for towing. Been a long time.
As for reaching the bayonet T handle from the lower 41 external hatch, forget it. Way too far.
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Old 24th Jul 2022, 12:16
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dan Winterland View Post
Nutloose - Reef the VC10. I've used this to exit and enter the aircraft in the absence of steps on more than one occasion. Also, it was possible to get into the rear cargo hold through a door between the rear toilets into the 'boiler room' on the ones that weren't converted to tankers.
It's a hidden door in the trim of the rear toilets actually. This photo shows the one in the middle toilet, there are similar ones in the two outboard toilets.



The trapdoor in the galley is on the RH side on the Standard VC10s and on the LH side on Supers, as far as I can tell. The photo below is from a type 1103 Standard, the RAF tankers had a relatively simple hatch without the surrounding panel and bracing as shown here.


The interesting bit about the 'Catch me if you Can' scene is that you can indeed get into the rear cargo hold from the back 'boiler room' as indicated, but even though Frank claims to have done it, I don't know how he could have opened the cargo door from the inside... unless he exited through the small hatch at the extreme rear end of the cargo hold. From there, it is a significant drop to the tarmac!

BTW, the photo Nutloose posted above was used to illustrate the story of Heather Robinson's dash in the 1969 Daily Mail Trans-Atlantic Air Race, see here: https://www.vc10.net/Memories/DailyMailRace.html
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 04:18
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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While I don't care about information about retired fleet types, those supplying detailed information about cargo access on current passenger fleet types have to be the most clueless I've ever read in terms of situational awareness on this forum.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 04:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by banjobill View Post
The 747 MEC (under the first class cabin and accessible through the floor ) had a large panel on either side to give access to the fwd freight bay. Unfortunately each panel had a zillion fasteners and once open you faced the fwd end of the leading container. Not normally an option.
The current Air Force One 747s have an actual stairwell to the forward cargo compartment - there is refrigerated storage down there so the galley's have access to all sorts of fresh and frozen foods in the cargo area (there is also stairway access to the aft cargo area, although I don't remember why). I don't know if it's accessible in the 'presidential' configuration, but when I was troubleshooting the 'green' aircraft, you could leave the flight deck, go down two flights of stairs, go around the side and into the electronics bay.
When we were working on the first AF1, they only had one functional PIMU (Propulsion Interface and Monitor Unit - each handled two engines). So I'd go down to the E-bay to check for faults on one side, then go back up to the flight deck, pull the associated breakers, go back down to the E-bay, re-rack the PIMU from left to right (or visa-versa), go back up two flights to restore the breakers, then go back down to the E-bay to read the faults on the other side.
Fortunately, I was much younger then...

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Old 25th Jul 2022, 06:21
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad? View Post
While I don't care about information about retired fleet types, those supplying detailed information about cargo access on current passenger fleet types have to be the most clueless I've ever read in terms of situational awareness on this forum.
Security through Obscurity rarely works.

Hoping that the bad guys will remain ignorant about something that thousands of people know how to do could also be described as a clueless philosophy ...
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 10:53
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dan Winterland View Post
Nutloose - Reef the VC10. I've used this to exit and enter the aircraft in the absence of steps on more than one occasion. Also, it was possible to get into the rear cargo hold through a door between the rear toilets into the 'boiler room' on the ones that weren't converted to tankers. In the film 'Catch me if you Can', Frank Abignale was seen to escape from a B707 through a toilet at JFK. This would have been impossible. In the book, he mentions it was actually a VC10 where it would have been quite possible, although quite a long drop from the rear cargo hatch.

I can also confirm the Airbus A300, A310, A330, A340 and the B747 have doors from the radio electrics bay into the forward baggage hold.

Yes, used the floor hatch myself when doing runs. I never knew you could get in the rear freight hold from the tail, was this on the C1? as I cannot remember ever seeing access, the door into the tail was by lifting up the no smoking sign and opening up the hidden door. There was also a periscope that could be put through the floor to see into the rear freight bay.

Jhieminga
The RAF acess door was only in the centre bog IIRC.
We did have a centre toilet door that used to pop open on its own and there was also concerns about the panting on the lower aft fuselage due to the amount of circuit and bumps with fuel in the fin, someone put a redline entry in the logbook saying the rear 5 rows of seats to be only occupied by blind people... and that they must hook their feet under the seat in front for take off and landings, or something along those lines. it did several flights before a crew actually read them... says it all really.

Last edited by NutLoose; 25th Jul 2022 at 11:05.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 10:58
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad? View Post
While I don't care about information about retired fleet types, those supplying detailed information about cargo access on current passenger fleet types have to be the most clueless I've ever read in terms of situational awareness on this forum.
Yes, I hope those nasty bad guys don't have access to youtube.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 11:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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About VC10 and also VC15 galley floor trapdoors. The VC 10/15 required an inspection to check the hyd quantities and a few other things under the floor each transit. But, in the best tradition of British engineering, we had to take up the trapdoors in the galley and hence prevent the galley exchange form going ahead while we, engineers, were down there checking the stuff required. We used to be blamed for any delay. Not my airline, blame me if you want.
Can you imagine it - an aircraft designed when the VC10/15 was designed having fuses for the systems? There is lots of other lunatic design stuff but let's leave it for another thread.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 14:27
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Security through Obscurity rarely works.

Hoping that the bad guys will remain ignorant about something that thousands of people know how to do could also be described as a clueless philosophy ...
When doing Royals, the RAF plods would turn up and ask me to open various panels so they could peer inside, while the sniffer dogs did upstairs and generally round the externals....
Opening a panel up the plod stares in at the myriad of pipeworks, bottles, cylinders and electrics... Asking what are you looking for, he replies "bombs".. "Ahh so are you expecting to find a big black ball marked bomb with a fuse out of the top? you do realise anyone of those components in there could be a cunningly disguised bomb and you would be none the wiser, do you know what any of that lot is for?"... A glazed expression fell across his face as he points up the fin and announces "I would now like to look in there".. "Fine" says I, as I look quarter of the way up the fin, "Two things though, One, how the heck do you think a bad guy was going to get in and get quarter of the way up the fin on a VC10 to unscrew about 60 odd screws and remove the panel to plant his bomb and Two, being a fuel tank, do you not think he might have got awfully wet?
"Errrmm, perhaps we'll leave that one".. "good idea says I"
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 14:29
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad? View Post
While I don't care about information about retired fleet types, those supplying detailed information about cargo access on current passenger fleet types have to be the most clueless I've ever read in terms of situational awareness on this forum.
TBH, I am 1000% more worried about China hosted cultural parks close to military and/or government sites, let alone let China have core access to the Internet/Cellphone infrastructure, both in the US and Europe.
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Old 25th Jul 2022, 20:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I never knew you could get in the rear freight hold from the tail, was this on the C1?
It's not a clear path, you'll have to crawl over the first crossbeam with the commoning valve on it, then drop down between the pipework and the next engine beam somehow. Or perhaps it's past that engine beam as well... I only ever did that once on a BOAC Standard, I don't know if it's possible on the other subtypes. There's more about the various periscopes here by the way: https://www.vc10.net/Technical/oddities.html#Periscopes
mustafagander are you sure you went through the trapdoor to check the hyd quantities? The reservoirs are in the rear fuselage.
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