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BA CityFlyer driver jailed for dodgy logbook

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BA CityFlyer driver jailed for dodgy logbook

Old 1st Apr 2022, 13:56
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
... that leads to a significant custodial event...
I was wondering about that too. One year (without probation?) is quite a lot for what he did. Compare that for example to the case of Learjet D-CMMM (https://aviation-safety.net/database...15-0&lang=de): A pilot with multiple fake identites and fake licenses and no typerating crashed in Denmark due to mishandling the fuel system of his plane whilst performing an illegal commercial flight in an unregistered, unmaintained, uninsured plane, therby causing bodily harm to his passenger and endangering the safety of others. All that whilst flying single pilot in a multi pilot plane. Which must be about the maximum number of simultaneous offences that a single person can commit during a 30 minute flight. He was sentenced to 10 months in Denmark.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 14:06
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Many years ago I was peripherally involved with the employment of someone like this for light aircraft duties. The BS was pretty persuasive, and he could kind of fly, but after some weeks he was asked to leave as it became obvious that he couldn’t do the job, even after a fair amount of training. Fast forward a few months and he was seen instructing BCPL students at Elstree; the CAA eventually caught up with him and it turned out he didn’t even have a PPL! I’m not sure but I think that resulted in a custodial sentence for endangerment.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 15:10
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Yup. Long haul Walter Mitty type gets fired from very well known uk long haul airline for logbook falsification. No prosecution as the ceo a very well known Uk entrepreneur with prior links to the record industry didn’t want adverse publicity. Some years later miscreant reappears on a training course for wannabe instructors working for well known but now defunct holiday airline. You couldn’t invent this sh1t or the chutzpah to carry it off.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 16:43
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
If you have the licences and type ratings, I am wondering what actual law is broken that leads to a significant custodial event.
Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 17:04
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Originally Posted by DP. View Post
Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.
Indeed, especially if he did not meet the hours/experience requirement to fulfil the role of a Captain, as set out in the airlines operations manual and aircraft insurance requirements.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 18:05
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Many years ago…prospective pilot candidate was being interviewed for a 737 FO position in the US. The hiring board, specifically one current airline Capt, has some questions about the candidate’s logbook. The questions related to time logged on a certain aircraft tail number. The candidate held to his story. Finally, the board Captain had enough and called him a liar. Reason…the hiring board Capt owned said aircraft and had owned it for the previous 20 years! Busted…
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 20:35
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Originally Posted by C-141Starlifter View Post
Finally, the board Captain had enough and called him a liar. Reason…the hiring board Capt owned said aircraft and had owned it for the previous 20 years! Busted…
Well that's how it should be. The employing company needs to do their own Due Diligence on applicants, particularly for key positions like airline captains.

Given that something outside the licences and type ratings (which apparently were in order) is seen as sufficiently significant to lead to a serious jail sentence if incorrect, I would expect the operators HR department to have a very serious and thorough checking process, which appears not to have taken place. I hope the board of the operators involved has asked some uncomfortable questions of those who have this responsibility at their company.
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Old 1st Apr 2022, 20:40
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A prior poster asked what will become of him after his prison sentence is over. I know in the US, if a pilot commits a felony crime he loses his license.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 07:33
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Globespan which went bust in 2009, hired a FO, knowing that he had been convicted on Parker Pen flying.
It first came to light when ‘Gibbo’ was going for promotion at Airtours, claiming military flying time based on actual flights carried out. The CAA revoked his licence, & he began again from scratch. The story broke again in the Daily Express whilst at GSM. Google search will reveal further details.

Had the equivalent crime been committed in medicine, it is doubtful if the GMC would ever have restored his name to the Register?
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 12:29
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There was a certain UK Police Air Support Unit who "befriended" a helicopter pilot. Said pilot then talked his way into flying their helicopter - then to their embarrassment it was discovered that he didn't have a commercial licence. He was prosecuted (arguably on incorrect grounds) but incredibly, found not guilty!

How NOT to become a Police pilot!
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 13:50
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There doesn't seem to be any mention of him having gone through the training system. I assume he met their standard or he wouldn't have been on line surely?

Mind you in a previous airline I flew with an FO who was, shall we say, "sub-optimal" and claimed much of his non airline experience was in Alaska. I always had my suspicions, but he got through the system.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 17:14
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Originally Posted by DP. View Post
Fraud by false representation, contrary to the Fraud Act 2006. The representation was that he had more experience than he did in reality, and the intended gain was obtaining employment that he otherwise may not have done.
And when he comes out - with an offence like that will he be able to apply/receive an airside pass?
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 18:24
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
The vast majority of Parker pens hold the appropriate licences, type ratings and often experience, it is the exaggeration of that experience or creation of fake hours that becomes their downfall. Virtually all of them could have got where they are a little/much later if they'd not decided on 'shortcuts'.
Indeed - but the CAA can only revoke a licence that they've issued. If he's gained that experience elsewhere, the best they can hope for is a successful civil prosecution.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 21:45
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Originally Posted by Fenixx View Post
Apparently he turned the lights off according to the Telegraph ?

But suspicions concerning Butfoy's performance were roused when he apparently plunged a jet into darkness while stationed at an airport in France, the Telegraph understands.
Selected ground power off when the apu wasn't running? I've never done that.
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Old 2nd Apr 2022, 22:59
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Originally Posted by Consol View Post
Selected ground power off when the apu wasn't running? I've never done that.
What’s “funnier” is when they realise having pushed the button in but haven’t released it yet. They are stuck there embarrassed like the kid in the Dutch dyke.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 05:57
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What Next

"He was sentenced to 10 months in Denmark"

That's certainly a novel punishment.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 16:39
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I'd urge all of us to try to find out what this button was as, with all my definitely not fradulent experience I have no idea what such a button could be and am genuinely concerned someone might find me out I might push it in error.
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 17:22
  #38 (permalink)  
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I deployed the rubber jungle once in a Challenger as I was in a rush and the APU start knob was right next to the pax oxy…. Glad I didn’t get sent to prison for it 🤪
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 19:16
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When airlines don't need pilots the CVs go directly in the bin. When it finally dawns on the management that they are short they can't get candidates into operating seats fast enough. Human nature says when you have your back to the wall, the easiest option is usually the first choice.

Strangely, I have never heard of a Chief Pilot or CAA licensing officer ever going to jail for failing to exercise due diligence!
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Old 3rd Apr 2022, 21:44
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Me too

deployed the rubber jungle once in a Challenger as I was in a rush and the APU start knob was right next to the pax oxy…. Glad I didn’t get sent to prison for it 🤪
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I did the same on a classic 747 many years ago. Having just got back into the seat after a couple of hours kip on a long range to JNB (I had literally just got back in the seat). A member of Cabin Crew asked for first aid oxygen. Well I moved the wrong switch and the whole lot came down, including of course the automatic announcement.

It was then that I learned there are some switches you can move, but if you think you have moved the wrong switch, or moved the switch in error, you can just move it back again - not so with the pax oxy switch.

An interview without tea and biccies for me back at LHR - and rightly so.


Kind regards
Exeng
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