Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

China Eastern 737-800 MU5735 accident March 2022

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

China Eastern 737-800 MU5735 accident March 2022

Old 7th Apr 2022, 18:07
  #361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: An Island Province
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A simpler view of why the recorders have been sent to the US is to apply the original manufacturers flight test data calibrations. An important activity at the time of download given that it might be a one-shot opportunity due to damage.

Many years ago the most damaged recorder analysed was that extracted from the San Louis Obispo fatal accident. Pax / engineer shot the crew, then ‘vertical dive’ suicide. NTSB had the recorder on display in the entrance of their Washington DC HQ
alf5071h is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 06:04
  #362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wonder if this could be related.?

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...light-incident
KUALA LUMPUR - The Civil Aviation Authority of Malaysia (CAAM) will probe the flight data of a Malaysia Airlines flight involving a Boeing 737-800 plane after it allegedly dove suddenly and flew erratically before turning back on Sunday (April 3).

CAAM chief executive Chester Voo Chee Soon said the authority would be reviewing the internal flight data monitoring system of Flight MH2664 to get to the bottom of the issue.

"Preliminary data has shown correct responses by the operating crew following the issue onboard," Captain Voo said in a statement on Tuesday.
​​​​​
krismiler is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 06:50
  #363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 999
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
I wonder if this could be related.?

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...light-incident
The FR24 plot for that flight (MH2774/03Apr) shows the aircraft turned back to KUL about 35 minutes after take-off. The altitude trace shows a 'blip' about 18 minutes after take-off, where the altitude changed suddenly from 25,000 ft to 23,375 ft and back to 25,000 ft. There's a second, smaller excursion about 7 minutes later, where altitude changed from 29,000 ft to 28,275 ft and back to 29,000 ft. The aircraft turned back to KUL about 5 minutes after the second altitude excursion and climbed to 30,000 ft. The remainder of the flight appears to be uneventful.

​​​​​​​https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...h2664#2b5da11b
BuzzBox is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 13:56
  #364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yep, Looks unrelated to me. Unless of course you would continue after an "unexplained and uncontrolled" couple of descents.
Stick Flying is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 14:31
  #365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sweden
Age: 55
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Stick Flying View Post
Yep, Looks unrelated to me. Unless of course you would continue after an "unexplained and uncontrolled" couple of descents.
Yup, not related. Theres no left roll present.

MU5735 and SJ182 is carbon copies.

SJ had a Autothrottle failure.
AAKEE is online now  
Old 8th Apr 2022, 21:55
  #366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Itinerant
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AAKEE...

I can certainly see why someone would say MH2774 and this China Eastern accident are very likely unrelated (though to declare "yup, not related" at this stage is not something an aircraft accident investgator is apt to say).
But to say, "MU5735 and SJ182 is carbon copies" is a giant stretch, even for an investigator familiar with these and "similar" accidents.. Care to expand on that?
grizzled is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2022, 15:38
  #367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by PJ2 View Post
The Germanwings 9525 deliberate crash in the French Alps in March, 2015 may hold relevant information & datapoints regarding chip survivability. Both trajectories were near-vertical at very high speeds, (between 4 & 7 "fuselage lengths per second").
The Germanwings crash was hardly "near-vertical." Perhaps we can leave the exaggeration to the media.

Descent rate was ~3500 fpm and took about 10 minutes from top of descent to impact. Roughly a 30° glide path, over a ground track of about 60-70 nm.

It did, of course, hit a steep mountainside, so the impact angle was closer to 70° or so - and was at high speed.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2022, 15:55
  #368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
The Germanwings crash was hardly "near-vertical." Perhaps we can leave the exaggeration to the media.

Descent rate was ~3500 fpm and took about 10 minutes from top of descent to impact. Roughly a 30° glide path, over a ground track of about 60-70 nm.

It did, of course, hit a steep mountainside, so the impact angle was closer to 70° or so - and was at high speed.
Airbus cannot be put in attitude beyond -15° pitch. So no question of vertical dive. It was just a planned descent.
vilas is offline  
Old 9th Apr 2022, 16:25
  #369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sweden
Age: 55
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by grizzled View Post
AAKEE...

I can certainly see why someone would say MH2774 and this China Eastern accident are very likely unrelated (though to declare "yup, not related" at this stage is not something an aircraft accident investgator is apt to say).
But to say, "MU5735 and SJ182 is carbon copies" is a giant stretch, even for an investigator familiar with these and "similar" accidents.. Care to expand on that?
Yes.

I should have written that the initial upset is carbon copies.

If the FR24 log is viewed in 3D both these accidents show a reduced groundspeed during the initial upset. There is a not insignificant left movement that can only be explained by a left roll. The height loss and the parallell movement during the first half roll is the same. The dive angle is not that different and the continued roll is very like each other. MU5735 began the upset with higher speed, and also did loose a little more altitude during the roll/tunnel roll.

AAKEE is online now  
Old 9th Apr 2022, 19:09
  #370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
The Germanwings crash was hardly "near-vertical." Perhaps we can leave the exaggeration to the media.

Descent rate was ~3500 fpm and took about 10 minutes from top of descent to impact. Roughly a 30° glide path, over a ground track of about 60-70 nm.
Descending at 3500fpm taking 10 minutes (around 30,000 to 35,000') covering 60-70NM CERTAINLY ain't a 30 degree descent, more like closer to 6 degrees.

So in your own words, "Perhaps we can leave the exaggeration to the media".
pilotmike is offline  
Old 10th Apr 2022, 00:05
  #371 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 74
Posts: 2,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
pattern is full, vilas, thanks for your responses regarding my characterization of the descent - I agree with you both and my over-eager post describing the Germanwings descent has been corrected, (strike-out of "near-vertical").

The point being made in the post, "...it is encouraging to know that both recorders' chips survived the very high-speed impact with solid-rock and were readable (four days' later).", stands of course and remains encouraging, at least until we hear otherwise.

Last edited by PJ2; 10th Apr 2022 at 00:33.
PJ2 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 05:02
  #372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It has been a while & there is a silence on the contents of the CVR & FDR.......(Definitely more than 4 days later now)
Wannabe Flyer is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 05:53
  #373 (permalink)  
epi
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: United States
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CAAC is having a PR hard time. So you know the reason…
Originally Posted by Wannabe Flyer View Post
It has been a while & there is a silence on the contents of the CVR & FDR.......(Definitely more than 4 days later now)
epi is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 06:14
  #374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 67
Posts: 3,654
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wannabe Flyer View Post
It has been a while & there is a silence on the contents of the CVR & FDR.......(Definitely more than 4 days later now)
Any information release would need to come from the Chinese investigative authority. While the NTSB, Boeing, CFM, etc. are all involved, they are basically under a gag order prohibiting them from any information release, regardless of what they may know.
tdracer is online now  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 06:14
  #375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 583
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Seriously ?

Originally Posted by Wannabe Flyer View Post
It has been a while & there is a silence on the contents of the CVR & FDR.......(Definitely more than 4 days later now)
An intermediate report will be forthcoming within 30 days.
This has already been stated, and is the industry norm.

TR
Teddy Robinson is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 08:22
  #376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Norway
Age: 55
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Leeham in a subscription article states that investigators are leaning towards suicide as the cause of the crash.

China Eastern crash cause appears trending toward pilot suicide.
https://leehamnews.com/2022/04/11/ai...ce-widebodies/
SteinarN is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 08:59
  #377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Age: 45
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Suicide with two other (much younger and fitter) pilots in the cockpit seems a bit unlikely to me.
procede is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 09:49
  #378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: NW England
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SteinarN View Post
Leeham in a subscription article states that investigators are leaning towards suicide as the cause of the crash.
That last bullet with the suicide claim seems weirdly disconnected from the rest of the article ?
INSCRINIUM is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 12:13
  #379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by procede View Post
Suicide with two other (much younger and fitter) pilots in the cockpit seems a bit unlikely to me.
If it was the Captain I’m sure that he could have found a reason to get them both out of the cockpit.
Fonsini is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2022, 13:49
  #380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: OnScreen
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by INSCRINIUM View Post
That last bullet with the suicide claim seems weirdly disconnected from the rest of the article ?
Just sensational.

Lookup the original Leeham article in March and you'll see, they did just copy the last (bullet) line from that article. The other bullets in that article refer to other options also passed on PP.
WideScreen is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.