Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

BA 787 Nosewheel collapse @ LHR

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

BA 787 Nosewheel collapse @ LHR

Old 4th Aug 2021, 07:48
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,593
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Easy Street

"Just out of interest, what exactly is tested by cycling the gear handle if the intent is for the legs not to move?"

According to the AAIB report (see earlier link), cycling the gear handle was the approved procedure to clear a number of maintenance messages related to a snag that the aircraft was carrying.

Why that was being done on the ramp just prior to departure, some 36+ hours after the aircraft had arrived at LHR, is a mystery.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 09:22
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dave... To a pilot or engineer you are of course stating the blindingly obvious!

However, as you are aware, the ramp is an open area that is notoriously difficult to control. There are many workers carrying out many different roles from different departments and companies. The only thing they know is that.... 'When the beacon is on you do not approach the aircraft'. You appear to presume that the engineers conducting the check were sufficiently numerous as to prevent others approaching - In this day & age that is pretty unlikely!
Magplug is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 09:41
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Hi Magplug, (responding to your post #156), Quite so. Here we have one of the two leading aircraft manufacturers, and one of the leading operators - in terms of high standards, supposedly.

A manufacturer with years of skill and experience of aircraft design and construction behind it. A very experienced operator who would have us believe they are the best and who is not a LoCo, so charges high prices for tickets.

They are both supposed to be setting an example of quality and safety, with no need to cut corners and de-skill its workforce. Absolutely shameful.
Uplinker is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 12:03
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Uk
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
DaveReidUK

If the aircraft was being prepped for dep, then there's every chance the messages reappear on power up or even power changeover from gpu to apu. The 787 is renowned for this. Hence why they need clearing before departure and not on arrival.
Yeehaw22 is online now  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 12:26
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,593
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Yeehaw22

"If the aircraft was being prepped for dep, then there's every chance the messages reappear on power up or even power changeover from gpu to apu. The 787 is renowned for this. Hence why they need clearing before departure and not on arrival."

Except that the AAIB report makes it clear the snag was already in the Tech Log as an ADD from a previous sector. If it wasn't considered acceptable to dispatch the aircraft from LHR carrying the ADD (which is understandable), then WTF had BA been doing since the aircraft's arrival a day-and-a-half previously ?
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 12:28
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Uk
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Who's to say its not a pre departure procedure for despatch for that particular defect?
Yeehaw22 is online now  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 13:06
  #167 (permalink)  

Usual disclaimers apply!
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: EGGW
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Except that the AAIB report makes it clear the snag was already in the Tech Log as an ADD from a previous sector. If it wasn't considered acceptable to dispatch the aircraft from LHR carrying the ADD (which is understandable), then WTF had BA been doing since the aircraft's arrival a day-and-a-half previously?".....
You might just find waiting for the spare pressure switch for a drop dead ADD is the answer!
AND 3 previous incidents. It is a shame though that they hadn't carried out the mod to plug the apex pin. Incidentally the 777 has the similar design but it hasn't happened to one of those.
gas path is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 13:33
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,593
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Yeehaw22

That would make sense, so every flight since the ADD was raised would involve cycling the gear handle prior to pushback.

As the saying goes, what could possibly go wrong ... ?

The account of the aircraft's maintenance history in the final report will be interesting reading.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 16:20
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Magplug

Actually, having performed this procedure quite recently, we waited until all ground equipment and personnel were clear of the aircraft before selecting gear up. Even the crew were kept in the terminal building. It caused a delay but we considered it prudent to do so. It can be difficult sometimes trying to explain to operators that this is the correct way to behave and it can mean the LAE in charge has to be quite firm with airline station managers, MOCs and airport duty managers that need the stand ASAP. Pressure for an on time departure should never trump safety.
TURIN is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2021, 23:29
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wherever it is this month
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
cycling the gear handle was the approved procedure to clear a number of maintenance messages related to a snag that the aircraft was carrying.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but that just strikes me as bizarre. Why not put a maintenance switch in the system to reset whichever electrical signals clear the messages, avoiding the need to cycle the gear handle and the obvious potential accident which has resulted?
Easy Street is online now  
Old 5th Aug 2021, 01:29
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Here and there....currently here.
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A lot of the tests we run via the CMC do actually do this by configuring the system "electronically" to simulate the required condition. In some cases however a physical change is required. In this case maybe there is a mechanical switch or prox sensor in LG lever module that needs to be physically made to get a suitable response? The other issue of course is how far do you go with maintenance switches? How many would be required to simulate every potential test mode? What is the risk if a switch is left in the incorrect position prior to flight, or fails? Remember the A320 that had spoiler problems on take off (at LGW?) because the ground maintenance safety selector on the spoiler actuator had been left in the wrong position? Putting it in another context, this kind of incident has happened maybe 3-4 times now on B787s, how many times has the test been carried out successfully in the same period? Putting more complexity into the system when there is a known simple preventative fix available is not the solution.
Tom Sawyer is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 04:19
  #172 (permalink)  
swh

Eidolon
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,130
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Has the airframe been scrapped ?
swh is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 11:47
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is no way that it would be scrapped with that small amount of damage.
Mr @ Spotty M is online now  
Old 2nd Oct 2021, 11:28
  #174 (permalink)  

Usual disclaimers apply!
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: EGGW
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The airframe is currently being repaired by Boeing. After strip out and assessment they make up a surrogate repair and bond it in. This is then subject to NDT. If all is good it is removed and the final repair made up and bonded. It will be totally invisible and will not need any further inspections later in the life of the aircraft..
gas path is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2021, 12:17
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gas path View Post
The airframe is currently being repaired by Boeing. After strip out and assessment they make up a surrogate repair and bond it in. This is then subject to NDT. If all is good it is removed and the final repair made up and bonded. It will be totally invisible and will not need any further inspections later in the life of the aircraft..
Any idea how much longer until it flies again?
Waterworld is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2021, 08:51
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
G-ZBJB is flight-planned from LHR-DUB this afternoon, according to Flightradar24. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-zbjb
Liffy 1M is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2021, 13:08
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,593
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 11 Posts
Flight number indicates non-revenue (Engineering) movement.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2022, 22:12
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cayley's County - Yorkshire
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Final AAIB report now issued

Link

CAEBr is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2022, 06:50
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,301
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Designed by Murphy.
Capn Bloggs is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2022, 09:07
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And operated by the most penny pinching bunch of chisellers you can imagine…..
hunterboy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.