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BA 787 Nosewheel collapse @ LHR

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BA 787 Nosewheel collapse @ LHR

Old 12th Jul 2021, 12:30
  #121 (permalink)  
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There is. But you can deactivate it via virtual breakers on the 787 for ground maintenance in order to "cycle" the gear and carry out various tests. Of course, the aircraft should be jacked up for this or gear appropriately pinned.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 13:41
  #122 (permalink)  
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AAIB report out...

The DDG procedure required the cockpit landing gear selection lever to be cycled with hydraulic power applied to the aircraft. To prevent the landing gear from retracting, the procedure required pins to be inserted in the nose and main landing gear downlocks. However, the NLG downlock pin was installed in the NLG downlock apex pin bore which was adjacent to the correct location to install the downlock pin. When the landing gear selector was cycled the NLG retracted.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 14:34
  #123 (permalink)  
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An Airworthiness Directive had been issued, with a 36-month compliance from 16 January 2020, to install an insert over the apex pin bore to prevent incorrect installation of the downlock pin, but this had not yet been implemented on G-ZBJB.
I wonder how many airlines will now have had a "oh hell" moment and be rushing to complete this presumably simple maintenance task to block up the wrong hole to prevent reocurrence. Cost per aircraft to rectify is less than $2K and takes 2 hours, according to this:


Seems like the exact same problem has happened at least three times now...
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 14:52
  #124 (permalink)  
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From the report:

"As [Mechanic 1] was not tall enough to reach the NLG locking pin hole without steps, he pointed to the location of the hole and [Mechanic 2] fitted the NLG locking pin."

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Old 14th Jul 2021, 16:15
  #125 (permalink)  
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Classic Murphy, great design.
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 01:12
  #126 (permalink)  
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$2K and takes 2 hours,
for a bit of plastic and 5 minutes work?
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Old 15th Jul 2021, 01:32
  #127 (permalink)  
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As I've said previously - it maybe a simple job, but a lot of us Engineers, including maintenance planners have been stood down/furloughed/redundant/left the industry over the past 18 months. Factor in also that this job would normally be carried out as part of hangar check package which are usually scheduled on flying hours and with the reduced flying hours of aircraft the hangar checks have gotten further apart on a calendar basis, it shouldn't be hard to see that a lack of Engineers and manhours, and planned maintenance events have compounded this situation. During aircraft parking, the Aircraft Maintenance Program is also suspended and in most cases no maintenance activities are carried out apart from those required under the parking/storage requirements. I would think a lot of operators are now starting to plan this work out on the line on their active airframes, if they have enough Engineers available.

Just like pilots, we have to got through recurrent training packages, and due to the current extended stand down situation possible re-qualification. Some companies may also have to go through a recruitment process before they get enough Engineers on-line, so don't expect Engineering support to be fully back to normality for a while yet. I'm forever hopeful that eventually companies will see the value of maintenance and Engineering, rather than the cost.

Last edited by Tom Sawyer; 15th Jul 2021 at 01:34. Reason: add detail.
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Old 19th Jul 2021, 20:01
  #128 (permalink)  
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Old 19th Jul 2021, 21:02
  #129 (permalink)  
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The AAIB report linked in post #122 inexplicably omitted the reference to Laurel and Hardy ...
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Old 21st Jul 2021, 12:59
  #130 (permalink)  
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Out of simple curiosity, does anyone know how many of the 32 787s in the BA fleet had the AD completed prior to this incident?
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 10:29
  #131 (permalink)  
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It seems we cannot assume that all engineers read their notices, or airworthiness directives, nor that they know, or can work out just by looking, where a ground lock pin must go?

And this at a company that failed to notice that the engine cowl locks on both engines were not closed prior to departure on an Airbus out of Heathrow.

What a sorry state of affairs.

How difficult is it for engineering to print a label and stick it on the leg; pointing to the ground lock pin hole? Would take about 2 mins per aircraft with a portable label printer.

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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 11:23
  #132 (permalink)  
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Red face If only...

If Only....

I'm pleased to imagine Uplinker that you have an approved portable label-printer about your person, all ready to print approved labels. I wonder how long it took you to get the required approval and how much each printer costs. From my experience, said printer would cost ten times (at least) the cost of a similar/identical unappoved printer available in your local Staples (other stationers are available). I also hope you have your credit card handy for when the label that you stuck on comes unglued and lodges on the forward weight switch and prevents the gear from retracting (other scenarios are available). A great (simple idea) but not for the real (bureaucratic, or read [misguidedly] 'safety conscious') world.

'This at a company that failed to notice the engine cowl locks were not closed prior to departure'. Which company would that be, cos many worldwide operators of Airbus aircraft also fell into the same trap. A problem first with design (both problems) and then with training and finally with manpower currency/shortages in the current situation.

I'm not saying you're wrong. If only it were that simple...

Last edited by Sygyzy; 23rd Jul 2021 at 11:25. Reason: spelling
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 13:32
  #133 (permalink)  
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Approved stencil, approved spray paint, approved technique. Go.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 13:47
  #134 (permalink)  
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I was reading on another thread about pilots not retracting the landing gear after takeoff. How difficult is it to print off and follow a checklist, physically lift a lever and move it up, observe the green lights extinguish.

We are all human. happens.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 14:51
  #135 (permalink)  
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Whilst a full safety assessment for a label might be required, some simple things only need a bit of common sense.
The A300 freighters I was on had a CB for the main deck cargo door that would sometimes pop for no known reason, and at 3am when tired, trying to find it in the electronics bay under floor could cause a delay.
Someone came up with the idea of painting a red ring around the CB and a label saying "This One". Never had a problem finding it after that.
Simple common sense solutions used to be approved by the CAA in a thing called a "Minor Modification".
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 17:52
  #136 (permalink)  
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Given there is an AD associated with it - 2 hours to do the paperwork is about right.
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Old 23rd Jul 2021, 18:57
  #137 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't say 3 engineers on a 787 turnaround is short on manpower. Currency/experience maybe.

Although myself personally raising the gear lever to UP for any ground procedure is the biggest butt puckering task for me. And this may seem self righteous but when it comes to it I trust no one to make sure the pins are in. I get off my arse and go and put them in or check they're in. Just force of habit.
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Old 24th Jul 2021, 00:19
  #138 (permalink)  
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I read that the FAA estimated cost - parts & labour - is $2,000 per aircraft.
Which looks kinda cheap compared to the cost of delaying the flight of the "Oops" aircraft, let alone the (?100 times as much?) cost of fixing it
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Old 24th Jul 2021, 10:14
  #139 (permalink)  
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Of course if that area at the top of the nose u/c was designed by an engineer and not by CAD, then it is a fairly good example of no Murphyism occurring! Also, who authorised/signed off on the final design of that area where the Very important nose u/c ground locking pin is fitted? Human Factors again, preventing possible "cock-ups".
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Old 24th Jul 2021, 11:12
  #140 (permalink)  
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Hi Sygyzy, point taken. Every engineering facility I have ever worked in has a portable label maker in the test room. Used to be Dymo, now they are electronically printed. Or if not a label, what about a ring of red paint round the correct hole, or a red arrow?

Regarding approval, do the company decals and paint colours on the fuselage have to be approved by the manufacturer and the XAA before an aircraft is sprayed with paint? Many aircraft have the last two letters of the registration painted somewhere on or around the nose gear leg. Are these specifically approved? Genuine question.

Speaking of company decals, there are lots of pictures on this thread showing photos of the aircraft, so the airline involved can clearly be seen, to answer your last question That airline is supposed to be one of the very best, I thought?

Hi Turin, yes fair point, hence my views elsewhere on pilot training and practise - seems the rot has now started to reach other areas of operations too? This incident did not involve an aircraft in flight - so there was no immediacy required and the nose gear pin was checked by more than one engineer on three separate occasions, if I've read the report correctly !
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