Qantas vaccine. IATA Health Passport.
dartman2
In the good old days of aviation we used to have to carry a yellow booklet showing our up to date status of vaccinations for yellow fever, cholera and something else that I have forgotten. If QF require you to carry the COVID version of this document you can always fly somebody else
Wilbur and Orville flew the A model as did Richard Pearse. If they hadn't it is possible that none of you would be airborne at all.
In the good old days of aviation we used to have to carry a yellow booklet showing our up to date status of vaccinations for yellow fever, cholera and something else that I have forgotten. If QF require you to carry the COVID version of this document you can always fly somebody else
Wilbur and Orville flew the A model as did Richard Pearse. If they hadn't it is possible that none of you would be airborne at all.
Check Airman
Unfortunately the 2019 version of "normal" will never return - for anybody.
Unfortunately the 2019 version of "normal" will never return - for anybody.
dartman2
...and here we come to the nub for most anti vax people; most of their other arguments being mere obfuscation.
Why don’t you outline what ‘others’ you are speaking about and what is their motivation? Then we can argue about what you actually believe, rather than dance around pretending to be discussing medical issues.
...and here we come to the nub for most anti vax people; most of their other arguments being mere obfuscation.
Why don’t you outline what ‘others’ you are speaking about and what is their motivation? Then we can argue about what you actually believe, rather than dance around pretending to be discussing medical issues.
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Blackout
I know Doctors and Nurses that are or have worked in ICU and Infectious Diseases , including family members.
You do not want to get this disease.
Or are you going to be one of those whose dying words are “ This cant be happening , its a conspiracy” ?
I know Doctors and Nurses that are or have worked in ICU and Infectious Diseases , including family members.
You do not want to get this disease.
Or are you going to be one of those whose dying words are “ This cant be happening , its a conspiracy” ?
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dr dre
Yep, and quite rightly they should, speaking as a parent whose youngest spent 3 weeks attached to a ventilator when she was 3 weeks old because a child at her siblings nursery had an anti-vax parent, and their kid had pertussis and infected several kids in the area. Whilst she was in PICU my daughter came out unscathed, one of three kids, four died and three were left brain damaged,
Yep, and quite rightly they should, speaking as a parent whose youngest spent 3 weeks attached to a ventilator when she was 3 weeks old because a child at her siblings nursery had an anti-vax parent, and their kid had pertussis and infected several kids in the area. Whilst she was in PICU my daughter came out unscathed, one of three kids, four died and three were left brain damaged,
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I have to say I'm shocked by the level of discussion on here. Surely this is not a forum for Antivax misinformation. I.e H1N1 is a Coronavirus (post 3) It's not!
I am a trained microbiologist and would have absolutely no issues with taking the Oxford and Pfizer vaccines. I would like to know more about the Moderna vaccine, Simply because they are a company who have never had a product licensed before. If Qantas choose to require vaccination surely that's a company decision they are at liberty to take. If that upsets the antivax brigade surely they can just fly with another airline. A question not yet raised on here is Insurance. Next year I can well imagine that travel insurance companies will have separate policies (more expensive?) for people who choose not to be vaccinated, as they will pose a greater risk of falling ill whilst on their Summer trip to the sun. This may change a few minds.
I am a trained microbiologist and would have absolutely no issues with taking the Oxford and Pfizer vaccines. I would like to know more about the Moderna vaccine, Simply because they are a company who have never had a product licensed before. If Qantas choose to require vaccination surely that's a company decision they are at liberty to take. If that upsets the antivax brigade surely they can just fly with another airline. A question not yet raised on here is Insurance. Next year I can well imagine that travel insurance companies will have separate policies (more expensive?) for people who choose not to be vaccinated, as they will pose a greater risk of falling ill whilst on their Summer trip to the sun. This may change a few minds.
CDC fears people will refrain from getting the second shot as the first might have bad side effects.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covi...the-park-.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covi...the-park-.html
What worries me most is the attitude, to partially quote Isaac Asimov, that “my ignorance is as good as your knowledge”. It seems that the more unlikely the theory and the more unverified the source, the more likely it is that people believe in it.
There are collectively millions of man-years of study, experience and expertise in the World’s health organisations but that is nothing compared to some unqualified idiot on YouTube who got everything they know about diseases from the back of a cereal packet. Fortunately, this type of person and their adherents are in the extreme minority, but unfortunately they are very vocal and opinionated about things they don’t understand.
There are also those who may be educated and have the ability to comprehend, but choose to examine only the data that supports their point of view, which makes a nonsense of any conclusions they might draw. This is one of the first lessons in science: garbage in, garbage out.
Ignoring all of the above and given the stance of most governments towards relaxing quarantines and lockdowns, from a position of pure self-interest it would be better to support the widespread use of vaccines to return to a semblance of normality?
There are collectively millions of man-years of study, experience and expertise in the World’s health organisations but that is nothing compared to some unqualified idiot on YouTube who got everything they know about diseases from the back of a cereal packet. Fortunately, this type of person and their adherents are in the extreme minority, but unfortunately they are very vocal and opinionated about things they don’t understand.
There are also those who may be educated and have the ability to comprehend, but choose to examine only the data that supports their point of view, which makes a nonsense of any conclusions they might draw. This is one of the first lessons in science: garbage in, garbage out.
Ignoring all of the above and given the stance of most governments towards relaxing quarantines and lockdowns, from a position of pure self-interest it would be better to support the widespread use of vaccines to return to a semblance of normality?
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which is why I would be hesitant in getting this vaccine. I have 4 medical professionals in my family, and even they are still debating this topic. Joining paperwork for my airline Dubai (where I no longer work thanks to Covid), required various vaccinations. The lady who gave them to me happened to be a specialist in communicable diseases and I remember her being surprised at some of the vaccines that were required. I had already had a few (yellow fever etc) and she was happy to give some; but she definitely hesitated and voiced concerns on 1 or 2. I hadn't even considered the fact that a doctor would be uncomfortable with this sort of thing. She mentioned that I was young and healthy and that there were extremely small chances of bad reactions (she mentioned seizures and brain damage), and she was clearly weighing up the pros and cons. My shiny jet syndrome wasn't listening to a word and I got the jabs and paperwork, but that evening was the first time in my life that I realised that neither sides of the argument can be disregarded completely.Having had Covid 3 weeks ago (it felt like a mild cold if I'm honest) if it were up to me I probably wouldn't chose to get vaccinated. However, I am running out of money fast in my new job delivering pizzas so I'd probably risk the vaccine if it meant getting back to a first world country and a decent salary.
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Am definitely not an “Anti Vaxxer”, always argue the pro vax route (I seriously get how important it), but where does Joyce get off being not only an advocate, but a demander for what seems a very quickly (albeit admittedly a necessity) vaccine that has yet to pass its final testing prior to release.
Shouldn’t decision such as that be the realm of Governments, or Scientist that work in the field.
And where does his advocation end, or what does he seek..he has already said his International airline won’t carry pax that are not vaccinated (and apparently undecided on Domestic), but will he next seek.the power to sack Tech and Cabin Crew, Engineering, Checkin Staff, Baggage, Lounge staff, etc etc that won’t take the vaccine,
Anyway, I totally hope the vaccine works, I do, but add there is not much to convince me atm to become a guinea pig straight up.
Guess my travel will be a road trip, at least until there is a year or so to prove the Vaccine safe....I remember the horror stories of thalidomide which was thought very broadly to be safe for all.
And yes, I get the need for vaccines for measles, polio, flu shots etc etc...so as stated not an an anti vaxxer at all.
Shouldn’t decision such as that be the realm of Governments, or Scientist that work in the field.
And where does his advocation end, or what does he seek..he has already said his International airline won’t carry pax that are not vaccinated (and apparently undecided on Domestic), but will he next seek.the power to sack Tech and Cabin Crew, Engineering, Checkin Staff, Baggage, Lounge staff, etc etc that won’t take the vaccine,
Anyway, I totally hope the vaccine works, I do, but add there is not much to convince me atm to become a guinea pig straight up.
Guess my travel will be a road trip, at least until there is a year or so to prove the Vaccine safe....I remember the horror stories of thalidomide which was thought very broadly to be safe for all.
And yes, I get the need for vaccines for measles, polio, flu shots etc etc...so as stated not an an anti vaxxer at all.
Thread Starter
arkmark
It’s certainly a brave position he’s taken. He mentions anti-Covid vaccine travellers will find it difficult to source other carriers who won’t have this restriction so it’ll be interesting to see what other airlines come out in support of such a policy.
Perhaps the OneWorld Group airlines have already largely agreed to sign up to it.
I feel it’s way out of proportion for the problem that is Covid. Were SARS, MERS and flu deaths less valuable to the world? I think Covid ranks 19th in the U.K. for death causes.
I’ve always said, if the leaders of governments and industries came out early, in one go and said, when all this is over it’ll be required vaccines for concerts (ticketmaster) and eHealth passports and Freedom Passes etc. there’d be rightfully large scale pushback.
Instead we have this drip drip piecemeal approach where the frogs don’t realise they’re being boiled. There’s a reason for that approach.
It’s certainly a brave position he’s taken. He mentions anti-Covid vaccine travellers will find it difficult to source other carriers who won’t have this restriction so it’ll be interesting to see what other airlines come out in support of such a policy.
Perhaps the OneWorld Group airlines have already largely agreed to sign up to it.
I feel it’s way out of proportion for the problem that is Covid. Were SARS, MERS and flu deaths less valuable to the world? I think Covid ranks 19th in the U.K. for death causes.
I’ve always said, if the leaders of governments and industries came out early, in one go and said, when all this is over it’ll be required vaccines for concerts (ticketmaster) and eHealth passports and Freedom Passes etc. there’d be rightfully large scale pushback.
Instead we have this drip drip piecemeal approach where the frogs don’t realise they’re being boiled. There’s a reason for that approach.
Last edited by sprite1; 24th Nov 2020 at 18:40.
It's a bit over the top and quite intrusive for an airline to demand vaccinations from paying customers. This should be left to decide by governments only. Airlines do it not balancing health risks versus fighting some pandemic in the name of society's well being but just for their private business purposes. I hope they get stopped. THIS is not their business at all.
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Logic?
The most common argument I hear from those not wanting to vaccinate their kids or themselves is "Why would I take the risk?" Well:
1. The risk of "vaccine injury" or death from taking a approved vaccine is infinitely smaller than the risk of catching a communicable disease and further infinitely smaller than dying from it.
Related - the lower the number of vaccinated people in a given population the higher the prevalence of these diseases.
So those against vaccination have no statistical or scientific argument to offer as the basis for their claims or decisions. None. And choosing to avoid a minuscule personal risk at the expense of increasing the general risk to society is purely selfish, plain and simple.
That said, I will defend anyone's right to make that choice. It is your body. But I will also defend the consequences of that decision. These include you not being able to be a part of certain things set up by a caring society including daycares, schools, and transportation. I will also defend the rights of myself and others who trust science and logic to call out ignorant and selfish behavior.
Most of us understand that seat belts save lives and wear them. Yet, there will be that one case here and there where someone may have survived a collision if they were thrown from the car through the windshield instead of left to burn unconscious and strapped in during a post crash fire. Do you wear a seatbelt? Get your shots.
1. The risk of "vaccine injury" or death from taking a approved vaccine is infinitely smaller than the risk of catching a communicable disease and further infinitely smaller than dying from it.
Related - the lower the number of vaccinated people in a given population the higher the prevalence of these diseases.
So those against vaccination have no statistical or scientific argument to offer as the basis for their claims or decisions. None. And choosing to avoid a minuscule personal risk at the expense of increasing the general risk to society is purely selfish, plain and simple.
That said, I will defend anyone's right to make that choice. It is your body. But I will also defend the consequences of that decision. These include you not being able to be a part of certain things set up by a caring society including daycares, schools, and transportation. I will also defend the rights of myself and others who trust science and logic to call out ignorant and selfish behavior.
Most of us understand that seat belts save lives and wear them. Yet, there will be that one case here and there where someone may have survived a collision if they were thrown from the car through the windshield instead of left to burn unconscious and strapped in during a post crash fire. Do you wear a seatbelt? Get your shots.
This vaccine has been rushed to availability and not been carefully examined like had been required before. The sudden presentation of at least two vaccines seems to correlate to the US presidential election. Maybe it was rushed again to be available in time? While I agree that some fully developed vaccination will make a lot of sense it is warranted to be sceptical about what is made available right now. To try to force it on people with all the known shortcuts that had to be taken is even wilder.
It feels a bit like those aircraft rushed through development in WW2. Having known deficits but built by the thousands anyway.
It feels a bit like those aircraft rushed through development in WW2. Having known deficits but built by the thousands anyway.
The 10 years to develop a drug versus 1 year in the case of Covid is a load of B.S.
A lots of the "10 years" is spent with spinning wheels, when nothing is actually done other than pleading for money/resources/lab time/getting volunteers and so on.
Covid money, 100,000s of volunteers, and pre-existing research in to Spike - type infections has radically cut down the time required.
As to the anti-vax comments on here. Good. You won't have it. That moves my children up in the queue.
A lots of the "10 years" is spent with spinning wheels, when nothing is actually done other than pleading for money/resources/lab time/getting volunteers and so on.
Covid money, 100,000s of volunteers, and pre-existing research in to Spike - type infections has radically cut down the time required.
As to the anti-vax comments on here. Good. You won't have it. That moves my children up in the queue.
It's amusing to see heavy smokers and people who drink excessive amounts of alcohol, but won't get vaccinated because they are "concerned for their health". My god, how have we become that stupid.
Get the bloody vaccine ya big girls blouses.
Qantas aircraft are private property, any owner of private property is free to impose any conditions they like. If you don;t like the conditions, you don't have to enter.
At the very least, learn how the dam things work before sprouting intellectual jibba jabber.
http://www.violinet.org/docs/undvacc.pdf
Get the bloody vaccine ya big girls blouses.
Qantas aircraft are private property, any owner of private property is free to impose any conditions they like. If you don;t like the conditions, you don't have to enter.
At the very least, learn how the dam things work before sprouting intellectual jibba jabber.
http://www.violinet.org/docs/undvacc.pdf