easyJet pilots favour strike
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Flap 5
You mention FACTS and then don't discuss any! You pose a question instead, and then raise the hypothetical issue that pilots approaching a 3 year point might leave. You also give your opinion that EZ is expanding too fast.
As I understand it, the management of EZ stated quite clearly last week (OK several weeks late!) that the new rostering system had failed badly and was being withdrawn with effect from September rosters. So is that not 'old news' now?
That doesn't sound like case of saying 'there is no prblem', does it?
Using the same priciples, BA should still be talking about what a disaster Robert Ayling was for their company. They just accept it now as historical fact!
You mention FACTS and then don't discuss any! You pose a question instead, and then raise the hypothetical issue that pilots approaching a 3 year point might leave. You also give your opinion that EZ is expanding too fast.
As I understand it, the management of EZ stated quite clearly last week (OK several weeks late!) that the new rostering system had failed badly and was being withdrawn with effect from September rosters. So is that not 'old news' now?
That doesn't sound like case of saying 'there is no prblem', does it?
Using the same priciples, BA should still be talking about what a disaster Robert Ayling was for their company. They just accept it now as historical fact!
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Flapsone,
You dispute my lack of facts. On the contrary my post has a number of facts:
Fact 1. The symptom of a chaotic rostering system. An airline that is not expanding requires no change to its rostering system.
Fact 2. Pilots have a 3 year agreement and many ARE looking to possibly leave after that period of time unless the situation improves.
Fact 3. easyJet's attitude towards their pilots IS at odds with their advertsing campaign
Fact 4. The many complaints of applicants to their job application website shown on this forum
Fact 5. The lack of support to commanders on line e.g. requiring them to extend duty hours by the disretionary 2 hours, leaving them to face the passengers when things go wrong down the line and many others.
My post was certainly more constructive than yours, which just criticised with no helpful comments at all!
Furthermore Flapsone easyJets spokesman on the TV was heard to say when questioned about the 14 cancelled flights last week that there was 'no problem'. I understand that he is a spokesman for easyJet management.
You dispute my lack of facts. On the contrary my post has a number of facts:
Fact 1. The symptom of a chaotic rostering system. An airline that is not expanding requires no change to its rostering system.
Fact 2. Pilots have a 3 year agreement and many ARE looking to possibly leave after that period of time unless the situation improves.
Fact 3. easyJet's attitude towards their pilots IS at odds with their advertsing campaign
Fact 4. The many complaints of applicants to their job application website shown on this forum
Fact 5. The lack of support to commanders on line e.g. requiring them to extend duty hours by the disretionary 2 hours, leaving them to face the passengers when things go wrong down the line and many others.
My post was certainly more constructive than yours, which just criticised with no helpful comments at all!
Furthermore Flapsone easyJets spokesman on the TV was heard to say when questioned about the 14 cancelled flights last week that there was 'no problem'. I understand that he is a spokesman for easyJet management.
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Flaps 5 , where have you been?
EJ's Ops Director letter was in the nation press for goodness sake and highlighting the problems. He also confirmed that the rosters were returning to where they were by September, it simply isn't the case EJ said there is no problem.
The discretion to extend a FDP rest solely with the Commander, no Company CAN require a Captain to exercise discretion and if you're pilot, you know that only too well, I'm surprised you even mention it.
EJ's Ops Director letter was in the nation press for goodness sake and highlighting the problems. He also confirmed that the rosters were returning to where they were by September, it simply isn't the case EJ said there is no problem.
The discretion to extend a FDP rest solely with the Commander, no Company CAN require a Captain to exercise discretion and if you're pilot, you know that only too well, I'm surprised you even mention it.
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Flap 5
Re FACT 1:
EZ is expanding so is looking to change it's rostering system. They screwed up, but then (finally) admitted it.
Re FACT 2: Pilots don't have a 3 year agreement - they are bonded for 3 years - different thing.
'Many ARE looking to POSSIBLY leave......' bit vague don't ya think?
Re FACT 3: Don't quite know what you're getting at here.
Re FACT 4: Sour grapes perhaps?
Re FACT 5: If any pilot has been forced to operate into discretion (and I know of NONE) why has he/she not taken any action - because no-one has.
Re FURTHERMORE: EZ Ops director was quoted last week in several broadsheets and on Radio 4 as saying the new rostering system was seriously flawed and was being withdrawn. I think that means he believes there was a problem.
I am not trying to defend the indefensible here but let's limit debate to genuine facts. Let's not bang on about a rostering system that has been binned. If 50 pilots resign, it's news - if you think some might perhaps, it's not. No-one is REQUIRED to extend duty beyond the legal maximum - EVER. If you feel forced remember all calls to OPS/crewing are recorded I believe.
Just so my overall position is clear, I think the rostering system was absolute B0ll0cks and we told them so right at the start, the payrise offered in April was an insult and the £10m pocket money for the chosen 40 is nothing short of a disgrace!
Up the workers !
Re FACT 1:
An airline that is not expanding requires no change to its rostering system.
Re FACT 2: Pilots don't have a 3 year agreement - they are bonded for 3 years - different thing.
'Many ARE looking to POSSIBLY leave......' bit vague don't ya think?
Re FACT 3: Don't quite know what you're getting at here.
Re FACT 4: Sour grapes perhaps?
Re FACT 5: If any pilot has been forced to operate into discretion (and I know of NONE) why has he/she not taken any action - because no-one has.
Re FURTHERMORE: EZ Ops director was quoted last week in several broadsheets and on Radio 4 as saying the new rostering system was seriously flawed and was being withdrawn. I think that means he believes there was a problem.
I am not trying to defend the indefensible here but let's limit debate to genuine facts. Let's not bang on about a rostering system that has been binned. If 50 pilots resign, it's news - if you think some might perhaps, it's not. No-one is REQUIRED to extend duty beyond the legal maximum - EVER. If you feel forced remember all calls to OPS/crewing are recorded I believe.
Just so my overall position is clear, I think the rostering system was absolute B0ll0cks and we told them so right at the start, the payrise offered in April was an insult and the £10m pocket money for the chosen 40 is nothing short of a disgrace!
Up the workers !
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zippy
Why do you think I did not think before starting this thread. Have you not noticed the immediate benefits to crew lifestyle since our rostering problems went "public" in every newspaper in the land?I categorically refute your suggestion that this thread is SSSS stirring. It is a statement of facts. Not all of our pilots access the company site and I feel it is important that these people know that a poll is being conducted that may lead to a decision which could affect their working conditions. Also, non BALPA members may be encouraged to sign up to increase the percentage who the union represent. You may think that little thought went into the post, but may I suggest that more thought went into it than you realise. Wag the dog buddy, wag the dog
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I can see why pilots don't want to air this dirty linnen in public.
Makes the rest of us see what a money grubbing bunch some of them really are. They really should have been lawyers if money means that much to them.
OK, F/Os aren't the richest of people, but still on a lot more than most. However, a smallish percentage of a Captains pay is still a helluvalotta dosh.
If you don't want to do the job go and get another one and let people who do want to fly do the job on your money.
Just now it is a buyers market. It has been, and doubtless will be again, a sellers market then you can call the shots (maybe), just like lots of US airline pilots have done. Perhaps not the best example as pilot/union won pay rises have forced many to cease operations due to high overheads.
(Gets out tin helmet, flak jacket etc)
And no, I'm not a wannabe or anything like that, just fed up of greed.
RdR
Makes the rest of us see what a money grubbing bunch some of them really are. They really should have been lawyers if money means that much to them.
OK, F/Os aren't the richest of people, but still on a lot more than most. However, a smallish percentage of a Captains pay is still a helluvalotta dosh.
If you don't want to do the job go and get another one and let people who do want to fly do the job on your money.
Just now it is a buyers market. It has been, and doubtless will be again, a sellers market then you can call the shots (maybe), just like lots of US airline pilots have done. Perhaps not the best example as pilot/union won pay rises have forced many to cease operations due to high overheads.
(Gets out tin helmet, flak jacket etc)
And no, I'm not a wannabe or anything like that, just fed up of greed.
RdR
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Roger de.]
Your comments are laughable when management have just had 10 million between them.
I suggest you stay out of here as Balpa are trying to improve our lot.
Southwest for example are getting a 20 percent pay rise plus further options etc.
Why should only a select few share the cake when the company is profitable.
Your comments are laughable when management have just had 10 million between them.
I suggest you stay out of here as Balpa are trying to improve our lot.
Southwest for example are getting a 20 percent pay rise plus further options etc.
Why should only a select few share the cake when the company is profitable.
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Roger, it's not simply a question of greed. Rather, a question of benefits and working environment against pay offered.
People will work for very little if they work for a company that really values them, where they are well-treated, they get all the leave they want, etc. etc.
Similarly, people will stand some very poor working conditions if the salary is suitably high. It's a trade-off, one against the other.
The problems start to arise when in the first example above, a new beancounter arrives, and looks at all the benefits, the health schemes, the "all-employees + partners" barbecues and parties, and decides that there is lots of money to be saved here. The team then says - "Ah! If this, that or the other is going, then this won't be such a nice fun place to work. So I either want them to leave the benefits in place, or give me the same sort of money I could get elsewhere, with all the same hassle I'm beginning to get here."
The same problems arise in the second example, where beancounter asks why their employees are paid so much better than XYZ Airlines across the way, and freezes pay, ignoring that the other airline is a much more pleasant place to work...
Either way, you end up with a disaffected workforce. And that, as has been shown time and again, is not a good situation. A workforce that feels valued and respected will work for less money, and will do everything they can for the company - save money for them, willingly work days off, accept roster changes etc. However, in another company where they perceive themselves to be no more than the slaves rowing the galley whilst the upper management want to go waterskiing, you will not achieve any of these benefits.
A happy workforce repays the investment many times over. An unhappy crew will damage you time after time.
People will work for very little if they work for a company that really values them, where they are well-treated, they get all the leave they want, etc. etc.
Similarly, people will stand some very poor working conditions if the salary is suitably high. It's a trade-off, one against the other.
The problems start to arise when in the first example above, a new beancounter arrives, and looks at all the benefits, the health schemes, the "all-employees + partners" barbecues and parties, and decides that there is lots of money to be saved here. The team then says - "Ah! If this, that or the other is going, then this won't be such a nice fun place to work. So I either want them to leave the benefits in place, or give me the same sort of money I could get elsewhere, with all the same hassle I'm beginning to get here."
The same problems arise in the second example, where beancounter asks why their employees are paid so much better than XYZ Airlines across the way, and freezes pay, ignoring that the other airline is a much more pleasant place to work...
Either way, you end up with a disaffected workforce. And that, as has been shown time and again, is not a good situation. A workforce that feels valued and respected will work for less money, and will do everything they can for the company - save money for them, willingly work days off, accept roster changes etc. However, in another company where they perceive themselves to be no more than the slaves rowing the galley whilst the upper management want to go waterskiing, you will not achieve any of these benefits.
A happy workforce repays the investment many times over. An unhappy crew will damage you time after time.
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Should have perhaps mentioned that management are often their own worst enemies. Have to agree with....blackdog, no excuse for their awarding themselves huge bonusses, but that's management for you!!!
Also agree with Huggy, it's the whole package.
Hope it is resolved and pilots don't price themselves out of a job.
RdR
Also agree with Huggy, it's the whole package.
Hope it is resolved and pilots don't price themselves out of a job.
RdR
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Roger observed; "OK, F/Os aren't the richest of people, but still on a lot more than most. However, a smallish percentage of a Captains pay is still a helluvalotta dosh."
I suggest that he, and his type - ( remember Andy Walker's letter in he log a couple of years ago?) are everything that is wrong with the profession today!
I suggest that he, and his type - ( remember Andy Walker's letter in he log a couple of years ago?) are everything that is wrong with the profession today!
