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Airbus in danger

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Airbus in danger

Old 23rd Sep 2020, 15:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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What about Rolls Royce..........is this RB-211 all over again? I'm not seeing a great deal of government support.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 19:01
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I think it's worth noting that for the aerospace industry (of which I am a member in the UK, and haven't been in work for 6 months as a result) and all the other severely impacted sectors, the virus hasn't pushed them to the brink. Government actions have.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 19:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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ATC Watcher

Well, do you think they would be willing to pay redundancy for all 13 000 workers, build a new factory somewhere and then train 10 000 new workers for an unspecified production start ? There seem to me to be far too many dangerous , expensive decisions for a new boss to make.In his place I would not be wanting to make huge, unnecessary bets on future outcomes;better to reduce the work-force by two thousand and keep production availability intact without risking any headlines like " Biggest financial catastrophe since A 380 cabling disaster "
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 19:31
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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It will be a drip-drip approach. I have no doubt that wing design, and then manufacture will be removed from the UK. It'll take 10 years or so - Wing design will go first. The posturing has been happening for a while now.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 20:29
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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unmanned_droid

Perhaps, however I was replying to a comment that said France /Germany would not want tospend to support non-EU jobs: that money has to be spent now though, not years down the line.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 21:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Tartiflette Fan

Fair enough.

They would support the UK operations if required, as a fair few of the permanent employee engineers in the UK are from mainland european countries.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 22:35
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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JOSHUA

And they may get EU working permits to build them abroad . "Auf Wiedersehen, Pet" True, was EEC, but Airbus will pull the strings and dump the third party country in the process. Pilots really are not that educated. Nor are our workers.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 04:15
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus wing design and manufacture

I would expect the new Airbus wing factory to be in Poland, and the new design centre probably to be in Spain, but maybe France or possibly Germany.
The factory location will depend on local labour costs and incentives to build it in that place.
The design centre location will depend largely on a place the existing UK-based professional engineering workforce would find most attractive: Airbus will want to keep as many as possible of these people.
If I was Airbus, I'd offer the people I wanted a very attractive relocation package, including immediate EU Permanent Residency and 'guaranteed' EU Citizenship in the EU member country of their choice after three years. For the over sixties, a fixed term (4 to 7 years, maybe) agreement with a very large contribution to their superannuation fund as a 'terminal bonus' for running the whole period of the contract

I will be astonished if Airbus wings are still being designed or built in the UK by 2026
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 07:43
  #29 (permalink)  
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Kiwi grey : Nice speculation , but on your remark :
guaranteed' EU Citizenship in the EU member country of their choice after three years.
Well it far more complicated than that , first each state has its own regulations for non-EU citizens naturalizations , some quite drastic , for instance Germany is minimum 5 years residency and a language test. Airbus cannot change laws...
Tartiflette Fan : Just to put things back in perspective ; this remark was made over a year ago during the first Brexit negotiations , possibly to influence EU/UK negotiators at the time to make a deal that would include Airbus interests.
On the German/French financial bail out money to Airbus, they contain certain conditions , not all public. But one for sure was to preserve as much as possible jobs in Toulouse and Hamburg, not in the UK
Another thing to consider in the equation , the current UK to Toulouse and Bremen physical transport of wings is costing quite a lot , by moving its manufacture near the assembly plants in the continent Airbus would save a significant amount too.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 08:13
  #30 (permalink)  
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Do not forget the Spanish .But this could be a big poker game to influence the UK government to make a trade deal , or in getting the UK to give aid money to Filton and Broughton plants ? who knows.

On new good news today for Airbus , Ben Smith said it will take deliveries of all AFR/KLM ordered aircraft as they are part of their reducing emission plan that itself is part of the financial deal with the Dutch and French Governments . The new aircraft are 25% more fuel efficient than those they replace he said. .
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 12:11
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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If I were the UK workers, I would want to go on an immediate wildcat strike at the first hint of something being taken away.

Deal with the legal consequences later. If you know the goal of the company, make it massively expensive to do anything.

After all, the worst the company can do as a response is what they are planning to do anyways.

The best that they could do is to be too scared to get rid of a good team.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 12:33
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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So you would force an immediate move instead of making it comfortable for them to stay?
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 12:36
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by unmanned_droid View Post
I think it's worth noting that for the aerospace industry (of which I am a member in the UK, and haven't been in work for 6 months as a result) and all the other severely impacted sectors, the virus hasn't pushed them to the brink. Government actions have.
Are you aware of the restrictions imposed in Spain, France, Italy, Benelux, Aus/NZ and Japan ? Are they more or less "harmful" to aviation than British ones ?
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 14:13
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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IIRC the Airbus wing manufacturing in the UK is all based around aluminium technology: if/when there is a change to composite materials for the next generation, that would be the logical time when a strategic decision could/would be made about where (ie the physical location) that investment would be made. However, tariffs could make a move of existing/replacement kit to another location more worth while in a shorter timescale.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 14:27
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papabravowhiskey View Post
IIRC the Airbus wing manufacturing in the UK is all based around aluminium technology: if/when there is a change to composite materials for the next generation,
Seems to be already underway.

"IComposites go to new heights on the A350 XWB

The application of carbon-fibre reinforced plastic reached new proportions with the A350 XWB, which boasts a significant application of composites throughout. For example, most of the A350 XWB's wing is comprised of the lightweight carbon composites, including its upper and lower covers. Measuring 32 metres long by six metres wide, these are among the largest single aviation parts ever made from carbon fibre."
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 16:28
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan View Post
Are you aware of the restrictions imposed in Spain, France, Italy, Benelux, Aus/NZ and Japan ? Are they more or less "harmful" to aviation than British ones ?
I didn't apply my comment to UK government only - restrictions are applied by government (to be clear, across the world).
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 16:30
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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papabravowhiskey

This is incorrect, we have been engineering composite primary wing structure for over 10 years. Strategic decisions have already been made about that - and not particularly in the UKs favour.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 18:45
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Will Bremen lose Wing final assembly?

https://www.butenunbinnen.de/nachric...remen-100.html


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