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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

Old 29th Jun 2020, 09:18
  #121 (permalink)  
Aso
 
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Mmm without wanting to be racist I avoid airlines in India, Indonesia and Pakistan for this exact reason.... Have seen to much stuff that has been faked. When I worked in Dubai I found it irritating that I had to send all my information from my schools and have it validated in the UK with the Embassy etc. But then working there I realized that they must have learned the hard way that the papers they received from people in those countries was not worth the paper it was printed on
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:10
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I hope no one here still believes these licenses are "fake"?

They are not forgeries, it's a case of 1 or more exams either sat by someone else or cheated on (answers provided). Funny the CAA knows who they are (or is it, since they know who bribed them?). Standard mode of operation outside the Western world.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:22
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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If the licences are not forgeries then what are they, sub standard? The person whose name is on that licence has not fully completed/passed the criteria to have the privileges of holding that licence with his name on it. As said in post 124, they are far too many people from that area who either have not passed the exams to have a licence or paid to get one.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:32
  #124 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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Originally Posted by CW247 View Post
I hope no one here still believes these licenses are "fake"?.
The licences were issued by the competent Authority / Regulator.

However, the means by which they were obtained were by a process not in strict accordance with the Air Navigation Order and other regulations,
as deception and / or fraud is alleged to have occurred
pursuant to the issue thereof.

In other words, they were “at it” in simple parlance.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 14:58
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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There's this gem too...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_M..._investigation
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 20:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Soooo, are they hiring?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 06:04
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sbthomas View Post
"If we force this on the Marine Offices, how will the officials there be able to supplement their income as they do now"!

This is at the heart of the problem. You cannot blame only briber, the bribee is actually far more responsible and the system that supports the bribee bears the final responsibility.

If you are trapped in a system where a bribe is needed to get any service, then you really have little choice and you soon loose sight of what is 'right' or 'wrong'. If you believe that no matter how hard you study, you need to slip someone a bit of cash to 'facilitate' your ATPL, then it's a very short step to not having to study quite so hard and slipping a few more dollars to cover any small slip-up. In a strange way, the individuals with 'fake' documentation are also victims of a ******-up system.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 06:17
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Well said double_barrel. The system conditions people into thinking and behaving in a certain way which is why publishing names of individuals is just a cheap and nasty trick to detract from the real problem of corrupt institutions.

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Old 30th Jun 2020, 06:43
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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So how are the Indian and Bangladeshi exams conducted? Who has relevant info? Who dares to step forward?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 09:53
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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CW247: "corrupt institutions". Indeed.
isn't it ironic that the main international organization responsible for setting standards for civil aviation globally, has such a slight, or even non-existent, profile for holding the component institutions which constitute each Member State's civilian aviation sector to any standards for integrity, reliability, and positive approach to adapting to new, improved technological capacities? Just picture trying to implement and integrate a new state-of-the-art exam monitoring system and i.d. verification procedure on top of layers of "baksheesh".
If the results weren't so often tragic and senseless disasters, it would be comical. Until the projected traffic doubling over like the next 20 years (or some version of that) occurs and then a lot more things will be bumping into stuff when they should not.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:15
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1566153/pi...for-six-months

The European Union Air Safety Agency (EASA) has suspended the authorisation for the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) to operate in Europe for six months
, the airline's spokesman said on Tuesday.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 18:54
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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My goodness , 6 whole months ! Hardly very punitive as PIA were barely flying internationally anyway.

The point is, there are numerous pilots and practitioners of many so called professions from this region working world wide. All bona fides need to be checked ... is that even possible ? I am not confident that it is .
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 19:41
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting defence here by a PIA FO saying the charge against him is that he has not sat one of the exams that allow him to become a Captain not an FO!

https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 20:39
  #134 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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Unlike EASA, you appear to be able to sit ONE ATPL paper (old Nav block?) at a time for CPL/IR holders.
And again like old UK CAA rules, no requirement to be a (f)ATPL for RHS >5700kgs.
I think that changed mid 1990s?

If I recall correctly, under UK CAA CAP54/509 [pre JAR/EASA] last century, you had three attempts to successfully complete the block.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 21:51
  #135 (permalink)  

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CW247 Thanks for bringing it up. First good news, anyone serious about aviation is eagerly waiting for more.

https://liveandletsfly.com/pia-fake-pilot/
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 03:51
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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I had a buddy who flew in India for Ran Air on a King Air. He had an FO that was a relatively junior pilot. This individual had an IR, but had only flown into 2 airports. Neither had an ILS.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 04:59
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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The 2 airports part is odd, but in FAA land, you can get an IR without flying an ILS.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 06:52
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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So to summarise at this time. The idiot Civil Aviation Minister has dragged the names of potentially 100 of those 260 "fake" pilots through the mud because of a misunderstanding/overzealousmess . In his attempt to highlight corruption, nepotism and more at PIA he has unfairly tarnished many reputations.

Regardless of race and culture, we owe it to our industry colleagues to look at the detail in fairness and objectivity. Here, all is not what it originally seemed.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 09:40
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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"Not as originally seemed". That could mean better or worse.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 09:48
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Really, did you understand any of the above?
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