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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

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40% of Pakistani pilots hold fake flying licenses: Aviation Minister

Old 27th Jun 2020, 04:42
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeanoP View Post
I am intrigued to know how pilots with fake licences and fictitious flying hours pass the airline's acceptance checks and demanding simulator scenarios? Does the corruption extend to the airline's training and examination staff?
Must be. I went through sim assessment with two other chaps. One of them could not hit the runway on a manual raw data ILS three times in a row. He failed, only to appear as DEC at the outfit down the road 6 months later.
Easy check for the logged hours: Add all the "declared experience" of the pilots of the region in question, then compare them with the existing fleet of the last 5-10 years. You would have to double the fleet size to accomplish the hours ......
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 05:37
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AmIInsane View Post
Pakistan and India (Africa and most of Asia too) can also audit their qualified Doctors, Dentists, Accountants, Engineers and MBAís.

Many of whom leave for the US/UK/Can/Aus/NZ/Europe as Ďskilled migrantsí.
Not sure which of those countries you're from, but that's not true of the US.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 06:00
  #83 (permalink)  
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matkat

I knew of an electrician working on the contractor circuit, until, a respected Multi X engineer became suspicious and asked a few questions. He was indeed an electrician....but purely for the home and domestic appliances

Read a CV from the sub-continent once. On the surface, well qualified...however, his mistake was the discrepancy between his D.o.B and obtaining his "qualifications ".....which suggested he had started his engineering career at a very early age

I certainly knew a UK Eng, who was A&C Licenced, ...his CV however included a couple of extra type ratings shall we say. His non aviation qualifications were "impressive and detailed "....so I suggested contacting the tertiary education providers concerned. It turned out he attended the courses he claimed to be qualified in, but, only for a couple of lessons which. for him, duly made him "qualified "...his best effort however was to state "Director Designate " for a now defunct cargo operator. When contacted, they were intrigued to learn of his pending appointment.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:38
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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I passed CAA groundschool to ATPL plus UK military flight training and haven't a clue what your hieroglyphics mean, it is not a mathematical system I find recognisable.
Perhaps you'd be good enough to describe its importance instead of implying that pilots who don't understand it are somehow wanting in knowledge - unlike your good self...
😲

A caret before a number refers to an exponent. 3^2 = 3 squared.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 09:28
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UnreliableSource View Post
There is unlikely to be a random distribution of "pilots". Those involved will understand what is going on.
I think thatís very likely.

I wonder what the possible consequences of a Swiss cheese event one day in the crew allocation department, means that two drivers with limited experience are paired?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:04
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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What some people are possibly overlooking here is that the training to a reasonable level is there. The bigger problem is that many who "attend" the training are not so good and are quickly identified as such, it is the high level of corruption allowing these "not very good" people to "obtain" licences at a later date even after failing or being dropped from the training.
It requires more than National regulators in some of these countries to weed it out because they may well be some of the problem. ICAO and/or other worldwide organisations need to legislate and regulate in a much more firmer manner.
Let's face it, how embarrassing would it be for a country's airlines to be completely grounded due to fake licensing/regulation.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:28
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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NOTE QUITE FAKE

I hope like me everyone agrees "fake" is probably the wrong word. Essentially the "fakers" are those that cheated on more or more ATPL Theory exams or got someone else to attend them. I.e. the licenses are not forgeries but were granted based on false representation of some sort. Culturally speaking this is the norm in just about every jurisdiction outside the Western (and probably Middle Eastern) world, especially for ex-military pilots who are so respected for their years of military flying service that at age 50, no one would dare make them go through a civil examination to prove they can fly a big jet. Yes, even the CAA would be in on it.

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Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:59
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
This accident makes a case for increased training, if anything. Had the crew been better trained, this would've been nothing more than a go around. No paperwork required.
I donít see that.

No amount of training can change the refusal to take the orbit. Itís cultural / organisational

Last edited by compressor stall; 27th Jun 2020 at 12:25.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:00
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps already mentioned in one of the previuos posts in this thread, another example of fake license, the co pilot of this disater:
https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=19890607-2
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 12:04
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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It’s not just licences it’s experience and training too I was surprised to see both pilots in the PIA crash had not been in a simulator since 2010 and the California helicopter crash the pilot was not IFR current. Not to mention Boeing signing off their own aircraft safety, Does anyone actually regulate this industry at all.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 13:12
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Hey posters, I know that with this story, it'll be difficult, but please comment the news story, and the facts, while avoiding general culture or racist comments, okay? Regardless of feelings some posters may have, we do have to try to stay within the PPRuNe rules.

Thanks in advance for your effort to reduce modding work!
In addition to being extremely patronising, its comments like that that make stories like this less likely to be uncovered.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 14:07
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Seconded...... Brushing things under the carpet for 'fear of causing offense' is just getting to be too much!
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 15:20
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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I think another important aspect is that those who flaunt one rule (I can fake my licence, for example) are predisposed to breaking any of the other "rules".

Surely now the insurers are formally aware of this situation they will apply pressure for the authorities and the airlines to get this sorted?

I recall a large airline carrier in about the 1980s (Korean?) that had a run of accidents which, shall we say, should not have happened. The insurance companies refused to insure them unless action was taken. Experienced expat training captains were employed in their training department and they laid the law down and said airline had no more accidents.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 16:06
  #94 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by RVR800 View Post
There have been a number of unqualified Drs in UK over the years working in medicine. Loopholes closed these days one would hope. They act the part and get away with it. Some have been actors. There are no incidents of Drs pretending to be actors as far as I am aware
The GMC website has a search function to check the status of doctors either by name or their GMC reference number. That together with their passport as photo ID is the starting point verify their bona fides.
There was a bogus consultant psychiatrist from NZ who was only recently discovered as totally unqualified (no medical degree) as part of her UK criminal trial concerning a patient’s WILL forgery.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 16:50
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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The oversight of medicine has continued to be strengthened such that nowadays it is almost impossible to get in on forged documents. This famous case of a Kiwi psychiatrist occurred due to a loophole relating to Australasian qualifications being recognised in the UK. Closed in 2003.....and that is the point - the system has become more robust. Just a couple of years ago responsible officers started cross checking doctors - a bit like line captains checking every check ride with previous employers. The CAA likewise has tightened its systems.

As others have said issues occur with lax or absent checks in countries where honor is more important than truth, where some applicants are more important than others, and where everything has a price.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 17:34
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 17:40
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 18:07
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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And here lies half the problem, this response says it all, still in denial.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 18:11
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There was a bogus consultant psychiatrist from NZ who was only recently discovered as totally unqualified (no medical degree) as part of her UK criminal trial concerning
This famous case of a Kiwi psychiatrist
Psychiatrist was of Pakistani origin with fake Pakistani work references (which is how she obtained UK employment).

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...rist-dupes-nhs
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 20:35
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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There's a list going around with names of pilots with dodgy licenses. Some are dead, some retired. Allegedly this list was provided to the minister by the head of the Pakistani CAA's IT department. The CAA knows with amazing accuracy who doesn't have a real license. Isn't that amazing?

One commentator says they would know, they're the ones that took the bribes and adjusted exam details and results on the IT systems.

The plot thickens.
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