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NATS Redundancies

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NATS Redundancies

Old 13th Jun 2020, 12:27
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe this would be better now moved to the NATS section? Or at least the ATC section?
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 18:33
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Concur.........
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Old 13th Jun 2020, 21:53
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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If it goes across to NATS private section I will bid you goodbye. I am no longer part of that club. There is life outside thankfully!
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 07:27
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Move it to "ATC Issues" as the NATS situation in the UK is going to affect every pilot and airline flying using their various services.

I think this thread should stay in the open forums, just in case NATS' treatment of staff heads in the BA direction.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 16:38
  #65 (permalink)  
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concur.......
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 17:04
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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And I do too-stupid idea by somebody
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 06:54
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst I concur with everything that has been said concerning controller training, and recruitment. In the Middle East an experienced controller is given a maximum of 40 days to validate. This obviously means you can get the required numbers of staff operationally very quickly.

I don’t believe NATS can afford to go down the route of controller redundancies again. We must thank the “experts” whose predictions were so wrong a few years ago. I do think this is an opportunity for NATS to “streamline” the workforce though, and utilise ATCO skills and knowledge for non operational work as-well as controlling. Do we need a full time “ops” office, investigation office etc etc.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 10:34
  #68 (permalink)  
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East an experienced controller is given a maximum of 40 days to validate.
.
Whow ! ..also in Dubai or Abu Dhabi Approach, or ACC for instance ? In my old unit ( MUAC) it took and it still take around a year to be fully qualified . It is roughly the same in the major German units so I would expect the same in LATCC , but wait to be contradicted.
in a small Tower with less than 100 Mvts a day, possibly yes. but for en-route ? You can probably train someone in one sector only in a short period of time but he/she will become useless most of the time in a large Centre.

Stopping recruitment and letting older staff go in time of crisis has been done before , even massive lay off . ( e.g. PATCO USA 1981) it always took years to rebuild to previous capacity levels as the vast majority do not come back . In USA it took 2 decades to rebuild the system to his previous capacity. 6 days on one day off and 50h weeks were the norm` for many years in most units in the US .. .in Belgium it was even 11 days on one day off to cater for staff shortages...

The future does not look too good for ATC in the next years... I feel sorry for you guys still active...

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Old 15th Jun 2020, 11:16
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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In the Middle East an experienced controller is given a maximum of 40 days to validate.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]

Not in DXB! You're in the SIM for three weeks come out and do Modules 2-5 in live traffic each level 50+ hours so minimum two cycles per module!
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 11:52
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Leave it on R&N so we all see it. We should regard what happens to ATCOís just as relevant as what happens to pilots in another airline. More relevant than 50 posts asking why Airbus didnít see fit to make the A320 capable of withstanding sliding down a runway at 200 kts on itís engine cowlings.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 12:10
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, how times have changed then. 40 days in my day. Must admit the change is for the better.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 15:03
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Fat Controller View Post
I think this thread should stay in the open forums, just in case NATS' treatment of staff heads in the BA direction.
That claim is a bit excessive.
At the moment BA staff would probably be over the moon to receive the same treatment as ATCOs.

Nimmer - a lot of the non ops positions you refer to are already covered by non operational ATCOs, due to loss of licence, medical etc..
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 19:17
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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mike current : In fact, most are done upstairs by ATCOs on a break or by support staff if you are at an airfield. In fact, investigations are done by support staff with occasional ATCO input.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 19:38
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Nimmer - a lot of the non ops positions you refer to are already covered by non operational ATCOs, due to loss of licence, medical etc..[/QUOTE]

yep and I imagine in this new tough world, there maybe a thought of do we need to pay ATCO Wages for an admin role??
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 19:53
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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I have no idea whether that was tongue-in-cheek or an attempt at trolling, but many of the backroom roles - albeit some currently required by unnecessarily complex regulations - are far from admin tasks.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 09:18
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t disagree with you, however some of those responsible for restructuring or cost savings might.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 12:11
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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overall for us ATSA’s uncomfortable reading, cant help thinking our position will be permanently lost
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 12:39
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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That's exactly why it's so important for a 100% union membership. If nothing else this crisis has surely highlighted just how quickly any of us can go from a seemingly comfortable and almost untouchable position to, potentially wondering where the next pay cheque is coming from. If non-op/support staff are considered to be fodder in any way then it only takes a loss of medical or competence to become one of them and hence fodder too. But for the grace of God comes to mind
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:42
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Fat Controller View Post
I think this thread should stay in the open forums, just in case NATS' treatment of staff heads in the BA direction.
Should be moved to 'ATC Issues' so everyone can still read it.
Judging by the fact the last posting in the NATS forum was by myself on 1 Jan 2020, I'm guessing it's not widely read anyway.
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 13:50
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully it can be moved to the trash bin in near future.... So we all can forget this ever happened...
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