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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Old 21st Jun 2020, 13:40
  #1241 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mayam13 View Post
Zubair is a survivor, a mechanical engineer, the other survivor is CEO of Punjab National Bank. The passenger would not now the gear was not down, no emergency was declared by pilot to Tower or to passengers
Maybe, though I would expect that many passengers on board who were regular travellers would have recognised the sound (or absence of sound) of the gear being lowered.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 15:14
  #1242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Thanks tdracer

Interestingly, I cannot find the speed graphs for the GPWS functions in the FCOM any more. Probably me being dim.
They have been removed from FCOM. Why is that not known. You could check with Airbus tech request.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 15:20
  #1243 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Thanks tdracer

Interestingly, I cannot find the speed graphs for the GPWS functions in the FCOM any more. Probably me being dim.
You'll find them upthread, removed from the current FCOM version.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 15:50
  #1244 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks all. Sorry to go over old ground. I couldn't face searching 62 pages!

The gear arrow and ECAM warning should have operated though? But by then the crew were probably overwhelmed. How on Earth did they get into such a state?

From my copy of Airbus A320 FCOM: L/G lever:
.......(2)
RED ARROW
This red arrow lights up if the landing gear is not locked down when the aircraft is in the landing configuration, and a red warning appears on ECAM.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 16:10
  #1245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
RED ARROW
This red arrow lights up if the landing gear is not locked down when the aircraft is in the landing configuration, and a red warning appears on ECAM.
At the speed they allegedly touched down(210kt) they would not have been in the landing configuration.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 16:52
  #1246 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
This red arrow lights up if the landing gear is not locked down when the aircraft is in the landing configuration, and a red warning appears on ECAM.
In landing config it ought to look and sound much like in this test (if the timestamp does not work, jump to about 7 minutes in):

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Old 21st Jun 2020, 17:34
  #1247 (permalink)  
 
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Landing gear not down and landing gear not down locked are different ECAM messages. Landing gear not down with red arrow can come below 750ft
1. When Flap3 is selected with gear lever up.
2. With gear lever down and sensor failure. It is spurious.
Landing gear not down locked is triggered when both LGCIUs detect the gear is not down locked.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 18:05
  #1248 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting information from Airbus Safety First
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 19:08
  #1249 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mayam13 View Post
The passenger would not now the gear was not down, no emergency was declared by pilot to Tower or to passengers
As SLF I would. I listen for the distinct noise whirr and then the wind rush past the gear.


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Old 21st Jun 2020, 20:28
  #1250 (permalink)  
 
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More reliable for SLF is: the Emergency Exit signage illuminates when the Gear is downlocked and extinguishes when it is upLocked.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 22:12
  #1251 (permalink)  
 
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There will be a presentation of the preliminary report tomorrow. I believe at the Pakistani parliament.
we will know a lot more tomorrow. Just hang on for a few more hours....
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 10:27
  #1252 (permalink)  
 
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I am not expecting too much info.

Its going to be one of those 'cultural' things
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 11:43
  #1253 (permalink)  
 
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Preliminary report suggests pilot error for not following SOP, overconfidence and being very high and fast and landing despite ATC caution. pilot landed without gear and decided to execute a go around. ATC also strangely blamed for approach trainee Controller not handing over to tower and despite noticing the belly landing and sparks did not prevent pilot from going round. It's from the Pakistani media and very vague.

Last edited by vilas; 22nd Jun 2020 at 12:08.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 12:23
  #1254 (permalink)  
 
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Wait for the report

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/p...tan-parliament
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 13:02
  #1255 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vilas View Post
approach trainee Controller despite noticing the belly landing and sparks did not prevent pilot from going round.
How to accomplish that must surely be standard training item for every ATC /sarc
EDIT: "going round" though possibly in the sense of returning to have another go at 25L, as opposed to a teardrop. That makes more sense.

Last edited by Euclideanplane; 22nd Jun 2020 at 15:07. Reason: Afterthought
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 13:59
  #1256 (permalink)  

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Perhaps by the time he got a call out, it would have been too late, and he probably (certainly?) didn't realise the damage that was done.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:15
  #1257 (permalink)  
 
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Not posted yet?
Source : https://historyofpia.com/forums/view...199407#p199407

Last edited by alainthailande; 22nd Jun 2020 at 15:16. Reason: Corrections
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:22
  #1258 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Euclideanplane View Post
How to accomplish that must surely be standard training item for every ATC /sarc
EDIT: "going round" though possibly in the sense of returning to have another go at 25L, as opposed to a teardrop. That makes more sense.
Bit harsh - plenty of discussion above on whether it would have been better NOT to have lifted off. If the Go Around INSTRUCTION were to be issued it would need to be earlier
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:46
  #1259 (permalink)  
 
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If that PIA link is true itís a very sobering thought that two aircraft subsequently used the runway prior to a FOD check!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 15:56
  #1260 (permalink)  
 
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The images of the aircraft scraping the ground look very much like some photoshop job, were they genuine I would have expected them to surface weeks ago. Same goes for any unsourced statements on that forum.
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