Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

masks yes remove middle seat no in EU

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

masks yes remove middle seat no in EU

Old 13th May 2020, 14:00
  #1 (permalink)  
kpd
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: galway ireland
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
masks yes remove middle seat no in EU

at least not in Europe according to reuters- surely that will help all carriers in Europe?

https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSL8N2CU6HW
kpd is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 14:40
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 53
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Makes sense. Removing the middle seats is just a no-go IMHO... Especially as 'social distancing' is only a temporary measure! Use a mask and practice personal hygiene! Not hard really!
White Knight is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 18:55
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Makes sense. Removing the middle seats is just a no-go IMHO... Especially as 'social distancing' is only a temporary measure! Use a mask and practice personal hygiene! Not hard really!
If that's really the case, how about removing animals from all passenger flights. I especially feel I need distancing from these and it is also not hard
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 19:45
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 53
Posts: 2,830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Iomapaseo
If that's really the case, how about removing animals from all passenger flights. I especially feel I need distancing from these and it is also not hard
No idea what you're wittering on about???????
White Knight is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 20:56
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kopavogur
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
If that's really the case, how about removing animals from all passenger flights. I especially feel I need distancing from these and it is also not hard
Since when does a small dog or cat in a bag/petcase transmit any disease?! 🙄
Small pets do NOT belong in the holds, it is pure torture for them, especially when witnessing the treatment they get from loaders.
Icelanta is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 21:05
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 870
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
If that's really the case, how about removing animals from all passenger flights. I especially feel I need distancing from these and it is also not hard
Charter a private aircraft.
Banana Joe is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 21:54
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
Charter a private aircraft.

It was a conditional question about comparable risks.

I don't believe you can force anybody to wear a mask on a plane and still sell seats.

So like you and others have said "charter an airplane" that fits your mind set
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 13th May 2020, 23:20
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,422
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I don't believe you can force anybody to wear a mask on a plane and still sell seats.
AAL will reportedly deny you boarding if you aren't wearing a mask at the gate.

But the F/As won't (can't) insist that you continue to wear it once airborne.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 08:47
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All at sea
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post

But the F/As won't (can't) insist that you continue to wear it once airborne.
Why not? They can make you wear your seat-belt, hang up on the phone and deny access to the toilet even if you are wetting your pants.
It would not take much to enact a rule about wearing masks, if that's what the industry demands. Peer pressure from other passengers (like the big guy next to you who smacks you in the ear) would take care of any recalcitrant.
As inconvenient and ineffectual as it may be (just like the farce that passes for security), if masks are required we will have little choice but to comply.
Mach E Avelli is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 09:43
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Auckland, NZ
Age: 78
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
As inconvenient and ineffectual as it may be ....
It seems that masks are somewhat effective in reducing the risk that someone with the virus (or, indeed other viruses) will infect other people. As you can be infectious without (yet) having symptoms, requiring masks looks pretty reasonable. The authorities are not trying to protect you from yourself: they're protecting other people from the risk you (potentially) pose.
FlightlessParrot is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 12:27
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: All at sea
Posts: 1,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I get that, and will wear a mask if that is the requirement. But the effectiveness or otherwise of these masks depends on specifications and quality, so one would hope that airlines will issue a certain standard mask at check in and not accept some junk items passengers buy at the local discount store.
But it won’t give me any great comfort to be stuck in the middle seat between two people who later are found to test positive, masks or no masks.
Mach E Avelli is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 12:31
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,422
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
Why not? They can make you wear your seat-belt, hang up on the phone and deny access to the toilet even if you are wetting your pants.

It would not take much to enact a rule about wearing masks, if that's what the industry demands.
That was my point - in the absence of such a regulation, the cabin crew's hands are tied.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 13:42
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
That was my point - in the absence of such a regulation, the cabin crew's hands are tied.
No need for such a rule. Don't want to wear a mask? Taxi back to the gate/land at the nearest suitable airport, and have you removed from my airplane. I already own that right as a commander, to protect my passengers and crew.
fab777 is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 16:01
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fab777 View Post
No need for such a rule. Don't want to wear a mask? Taxi back to the gate/land at the nearest suitable airport, and have you removed from my airplane. I already own that right as a commander, to protect my passengers and crew.
That is going to be an interesting courtcase, if the passenger decide to sue.
In my country, the experts publicly doubt the use and of masks and there are lots of studies which are conflicted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the passenger succesfully defends the removing of his mask, depending on the country.

Of course you can always try the "passengers are supposed to follow instructions of the crew", but that line has decreases in usefulness too.

​​​​​
the_stranger is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 16:24
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Having a margarita on the beach
Age: 50
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
That is going to be an interesting courtcase, if the passenger decide to sue.
In my country, the experts publicly doubt the use and of masks and there are lots of studies which are conflicted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the passenger succesfully defends the removing of his mask, depending on the country.

Of course you can always try the "passengers are supposed to follow instructions of the crew", but that line has decreases in usefulness too.

​​​​​
The Commander has the authority to give all commands and take any appropriate actions for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons and/or property carried therein.He/she has also the authority to disembark any person (or cargo) that may represent a potential hazard to the safety of the aircraft or its occupants. You remove your mask = you are smoking onboard basically.
The airline should write down in the conditions of air travel (and make sure it is also written all over the place on the website / e-ticket receipt) that it is compulsory to wear a company provided mask anytime onboard the aircraft. Now that brings a couple of problems : 1) what about young children and/or adults with respiratory diseases (such as asthma) whom most likely won't be able to wear a mask for the whole duration of the flight ? 2) It is going to work for short-medium range flights (up to 3 hours I would guess) but what about longer flights ? You can't wear a mask for 15 hours on a long haul flight.
sonicbum is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 16:52
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Icelanta View Post
Since when does a small dog or cat in a bag/petcase transmit any disease?! 🙄
Mostly: when they come out of the bag/petcase, which they will do at some time. This is why carrying your pet in a bag/petcase does not exempt you from pet quarantine requirements, where they exist. This applies even if you use your own entire aircraft as the bag/petcase (see e.g. Jonny Depp).

However, when talking about respiratory viruses and aerosol transmission the answer is "when the bag/petcase exchanges air with the outside". So, yeah you're right, no problem, as long as the bag/petcase is certified escape-proof and airtight...


infrequentflyer789 is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 16:53
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
That is going to be an interesting courtcase, if the passenger decide to sue.
In my country, the experts publicly doubt the use and of masks and there are lots of studies which are conflicted.
I wouldn't be surprised if the passenger succesfully defends the removing of his mask, depending on the country.​​​​
Local loud-mouth experts are one thing, but if you don't obey safety instructions given by the crew, and ultimately, the commander of the aircraft, the airline's lawyers will - for a fee - be happy to give you a reference to their terms of carriage and Tokyo convention.
FlyingStone is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 17:01
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reuters report on U.S. airlines mask policies in this post:

Average US flight 17 pax
Airbubba is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 17:25
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Try to evaluate pain VS gain and I think that you will find it a worthwhile compromise. Would you give up on a one-week holiday only because you can't tolerate wearing a mask for a couple of hours? Would you ditch negotiations potentially leading to a promising offer for your business just because wearing a mask on the flight is too much to ask for? Would you explain to your friends or relatives that you are not coming to see them anytime soon because you don't want to wear a mask on the plane? This is not going to last forever, I'm quite certain. But, for now, it's the necessary evil to get people flying and hopefully keep as many of us as possible in our jobs.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 14th May 2020, 17:55
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't wish to lower the tone of the thread, but what about airsickness? Clearly a mask would have to be removed, briefly and hopefully only once.

How bearable would a mask be after using the bag? Would it still be as effective? Do the current provisions for airsickness need to be modified WRT the pandemic?
John Marsh is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.