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Tail strike crew swap seats

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Tail strike crew swap seats

Old 11th Apr 2020, 20:06
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I can confirm from first hand experience that flying from the “wrong” seat has potential to end badly if proper precautions are not taken.
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Old 11th Apr 2020, 21:06
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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As long there is anyone in any seat...

Old 707 days, E&E compartment, ehrrm...
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 02:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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signaling a turn with your windshield wipers
And that can happen quite easily, some manufacturers have the signal stalk on the right and wipers on the left, others have them reversed. Ask me how I know.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 04:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fox niner View Post
Swapping seats inflight is total madness, I agree. But flying in the L or R seat is not all that different.
Example: why don’t I totally crash a rental car in south africa/the UK/australia? Doing the clutch or steering wheel my other hand does not cause such a short circuit as riding the bike in the YouTube shown above.
Originally Posted by Chu Chu View Post
If a car had the gas pedal on the left and the clutch on the right, it might be pretty dangerous. But luckily they don't. It's pretty hard to mistake the door handle for the gear shift, so about the worst that can happen control-wise is signaling a turn with your windshield wipers.
I ended opening the window several times instead of shifting gear.... I moved my right hand without thinking, it found a handle, and muscle memory did the rest.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 08:51
  #25 (permalink)  

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I ended opening the window several times instead of shifting gear.... I moved my right hand without thinking, it found a handle, and muscle memory did the rest.
I've done that many times, the other way round; UK driver renting on the Continent. I reckoned when I stopped trying to open the door, I'd settled into the "new" position.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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When I taught close formation flying in the VC10, it was common to teach both the captain and co-pilot on the same flight. So a double seat swap for the instructor was quite normal - but there was always a pilot in one seat or other, fully strapped in and briefed.

Taking over a seat from someone who'd been sweating away flying close formation for half an hour or so was never fun!

We also did double seat swaps in the holding pattern whilst training, but always with one pilot strapped in and the autopilot engaged.

But NEVER a seat swap with no-one in a pilot's seat - that's madness!

One Air Eng held a pilot licence and once asked his captain for a landing. "Certainly", said the captain, "but first you must apply for a commission as a pilot, then if you pass the course, complete advanced flying training and get posted to the VC10, THEN you can have a landing!"
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 10:18
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Would the insurance be null and voided. Would the Captain not be liable to lose his license and possible prosecution.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 12:29
  #28 (permalink)  

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As BEagle says. Madness. That is precisely the time an engine explodes/separates, or some such "triviality"..
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 14:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fox niner View Post
Swapping seats inflight is total madness, I agree. But flying in the L or R seat is not all that different.
Example: why don’t I totally crash a rental car in south africa/the UK/australia? Doing the clutch or steering wheel my other hand does not cause such a short circuit as riding the bike in the YouTube shown above.
Left to right seat is a big deal unless you've done it before. Everything you look for has moved. Everything on the right is now on the left. Left is now right. Your flying and power hands have changed. Your sight picture has changed. Now if you fly one airplane from the right seat and another from the left seat it's not the same as switching from left to right seat in the same airplane.

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Old 12th Apr 2020, 14:30
  #30 (permalink)  

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Apart from all this, as I understand, the guy wasn't a trainer, so had no right to be in the RHS, unless the LHS was occupied by another captain.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Pure and simple madness. Seems quite strange though, as far as I know chinese airlines are not exactly the place to act as a cowboy.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chiefttp View Post
Flying heavies in the USAF, I was amazed at how difficult is was to to Air Refueling from the right seat versus the standard left seat position when I upgraded to AR Instructor. It took awhile to adjust.
I've heard stories that the pilots on the KC-135 would somehow do an inflight seat swap to get the quals for both pilots in both seats. Apparently they swap without using a third pilot. Is this true?

The tanker pilots seem to guard the yoke on airliner Boeings when they are the pilot monitoring on the takeoff roll. I'm told this comes from some stab malfunction that happened 50 years ago.

Some of the KC-10 drivers have their head buried in the cockpit reading out the ground speed off the screen when you are turning into the gate. Don't they know that they are supposed to be texting their girlfriends at that critical phase of the flight?

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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Left hand drive.

Originally Posted by Chu Chu View Post
If a car had the gas pedal on the left and the clutch on the right, it might be pretty dangerous. But luckily they don't. It's pretty hard to mistake the door handle for the gear shift, so about the worst that can happen control-wise is signaling a turn with your windshield wipers.
Some three wheeler electric milk floats (Wales and Edwards?) have the accelerator on the left and the brake on the right. They're easy to drive if you just use your left foot only for both pedals. No clutch, as the three relays give auto torque changes.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Webby737 View Post
Try driving the car at night with little visual clues.
It's easy enough during the day with something to follow but very easy to make a mistake when you're in the middle of nowhere at night.
Just follow the lines...
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 16:11
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
Just follow the lines...
That works till you arrive at a junction or roundabout, if you're not concentrating it's all too easy to end up on the wrong side of the road. This is probably what happened to the poor chap who was killed on a motorcycle by the wife of an American diplomat in the UK a while back.
The worst case scenario would be an emergency of some sort where your muscle memory would kick in and you would probably reach for the wrong control.
It would be of little consequence in a car but has the potential to turn very nasty in an aircraft.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 23:39
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Airbubba,
I highly doubt that 135 crews would do that. Remember there are other crew members onboard who could rat them out.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 01:43
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chiefttp View Post
Airbubba,
I highly doubt that 135 crews would do that. Remember there are other crew members onboard who could rat them out.
I've actually seen the two pilot seat swap at altitude in a widebody airliner in years past. When the ETOPS twins started to arrive and replace the steam driven planes with flight engineers it seemed like the wheel was invented differently at each domicile on how to handle the seats on a flight that required the third pilot.

I flew from a junior East Coast base with all of the FO's, including me, type rated. A senior West Coast base flew mostly domestic with a few overwater routes like HNL that could be done with two pilots. The FO's weren't usually type rated since a third pilot was rarely required and a captain could be used under the contract in force when the base opened. The West Coast base was given a Pac Rim route and the relief pilot was a type rated FO deadheaded from my East Coast base. I often bid it since there was a lot of full pay deadhead and some good layovers in the trip.

The West Coast guys wanted to make sure that I was duly impressed with my betters and they were always talking about things like their Rolex collection and their air-cooled Porsches. I'd try to strike up a conversation about zero-turn radius mowers but they wouldn't be interested.

With some crews I didn't ever get into the pilot seats during the crossing, I was like an FE without a panel. With others we would seat swap for breaks. On one leg somehow the captain ended up in the right seat and the FO in the left at top of descent. I was ready to swap with the captain and temporarily sit in the right seat but he decided to have the FO leave the left seat and he stepped over the center console trying not to snag his trousers on the throttles.

Three decades later things are a lot more specific in ops manuals about seat swaps and who can occupy the seats in flight.

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Old 13th Apr 2020, 06:49
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Seat swaps are common in corporate aviation ...also look at being a CFI...you go from left to right there, right?
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 10:22
  #39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
Seat swaps are common in corporate aviation ...also look at being a CFI...you go from left to right there, right?
It depends, scan the GA airfields : how do you recognize an old FI flying his private GA aircraft ? he flies it from the right seat...
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 10:57
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pugilistic Animus View Post
Seat swaps are common in corporate aviation ...also look at being a CFI...you go from left to right there, right?
Oh yes you do. And occasionally, depending on your student, you’ll go from right to left. The first few times you do it from the right, though, it’s decidedly odd.
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