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Flights into the UK...

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Flights into the UK...

Old 3rd Apr 2020, 09:29
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Flights into the UK...

Should the UK be allowing PAX flights into LHR given the country is in lock down with little or no arrival checks? (JFK, GIG, GRU, PEK, LAX, SFO to mention a few) China is taking a completely different approach. Checks at inbound airports. It's taking about 8 hours to get through and then a 14 day quarantine.

Discuss..

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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 09:44
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Possibly but I don’t think anyone’s coming on their holidays. I believe everyone on these aircraft is heading home and is expected to self isolate for 14 days. Would keeping them corralled at the airport together for 8 hours be any safer?
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:06
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The number of potentially infected people entering the UK via its airports is tiny compared to the number of people across the uk who are ignoring the instruction to stay at home and stay more than two metres away from people who do not live with them. Most people are taking it seriously, but plenty are not. The additional risk is therefore pretty low compared to those idiots.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:40
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It was how we got infected in the first place. The writing was on the wall from January 30th and sure enough we now find ourselves in this situation which would have happened anyway even with inbound airport checks. More to the point what happens when we eventually get down to zero cases and the rest of the world still has it? China leads the way with its very restrictive access but some folk think it will all be back to normal in the coming months. Somehow I don't think so.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 10:48
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Originally Posted by Del Prado
Possibly but I don’t think anyone’s coming on their holidays. I believe everyone on these aircraft is heading home and is expected to self isolate for 14 days. Would keeping them corralled at the airport together for 8 hours be any safer?
In a word, yes, provided that the corralling is in order to test and get the result for each person, and for those who are positive to be taken to an isolation facility under isolated conditions, so that they cannot infect at least 5 other people on their way to self-isolation. Those who test negative still need to self-isolate when they get home for 14 days. Has the present Government got the awareness and balls to do that. In another word, no. Just like their pathetic failure to provide proper PPE in sufficient quantities in the right places because for many weeks they ignored warnings that they needed to get their fingers out and actually do something. With the result that my daughter is now being re-purposed from being a Consultant Anaesthetist to working in one of the "Nightingale" hospitals with totally inadequate PPE. At the moment, when she gets home after a 24-hour shift (made necessary by staff shortages from years of underfunding aggravated by 25% self-isolating because they cant't get tested) she has the pleasure of listening to morons telling the world from lecterns in No 10 that it's not their fault, before she collapses with sheer exhaustion. But she's really glad that BoJo has just discovered and announced that testing is the key to defeating the virus. Wow; no-one knew that, did they? All BoJo needs to do now is magic up the millions of test kits by shouting at the industry to make more, as he should have done in January. Pity the political and medical establishment didn't learn from history, pandemic modelling exercises, other countries' experiences and advice.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 11:02
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"Following Public Health England (PHE) advice, there are currently no temperature checks at Gatwick or any other UK airport. According to PHE’s medical, clinically informed, and evidence driven approach to identify those at risk, temperature checks are not a required or effective way of keeping the public safe. "
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 12:53
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If a hundred people can get off a plane and go home by whatever means, why am I only going out twice a day, and then staying at least 2 m away from everyone, even my neighbours? Joined-up thinking seems to be in short supply
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 13:13
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
"Following Public Health England (PHE) advice, there are currently no temperature checks at Gatwick or any other UK airport. According to PHE’s medical, clinically informed, and evidence driven approach to identify those at risk, temperature checks are not a required or effective way of keeping the public safe. "
From what they keep saying, people don't show symptoms for up to 7 days but are contagious during that time so temperature checks would not show anything.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 13:29
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Originally Posted by Herod
If a hundred people can get off a plane and go home by whatever means, why am I only going out twice a day, and then staying at least 2 m away from everyone, even my neighbours? Joined-up thinking seems to be in short supply
Because you are, apparently, 73.

The much more sensible course of action is to isolate as far as possible the 20% of the population who are at increased risk (albeit not much higher than the risk of dying this year anyway), whilst the 80% for whom the risk is not great at all just get on with their lives and develop immunity.

This was what Boris wanted to do until, most amusingly, having just got Brexit done, he was talked out of it by Macron and Merkel.




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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 13:37
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Relations last week got off a rammed BA 747 from Cape Town. There were a load of pax off a cruise on board as well. They called us from a supermarket in Wiltshire 2 hours after landing! Crazy
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 14:45
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Originally Posted by old,not bold
In a word, yes, provided that the corralling is in order to test and get the result for each person, and for those who are positive to be taken to an isolation facility under isolated conditions, so that they cannot infect at least 5 other people on their way to self-isolation. Those who test negative still need to self-isolate when they get home for 14 days. Has the present Government got the awareness and balls to do that. In another word, no. Just like their pathetic failure to provide proper PPE in sufficient quantities in the right places because for many weeks they ignored warnings that they needed to get their fingers out and actually do something. With the result that my daughter is now being re-purposed from being a Consultant Anaesthetist to working in one of the "Nightingale" hospitals with totally inadequate PPE. At the moment, when she gets home after a 24-hour shift (made necessary by staff shortages from years of underfunding aggravated by 25% self-isolating because they cant't get tested) she has the pleasure of listening to morons telling the world from lecterns in No 10 that it's not their fault, before she collapses with sheer exhaustion. But she's really glad that BoJo has just discovered and announced that testing is the key to defeating the virus. Wow; no-one knew that, did they? All BoJo needs to do now is magic up the millions of test kits by shouting at the industry to make more, as he should have done in January. Pity the political and medical establishment didn't learn from history, pandemic modelling exercises, other countries' experiences and advice.
Best wishes and admiration to your daughter.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 14:51
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Paul852. Yes, I'm 73, no underlying health conditions, and can probably show you a clean pair of heels in a 10 k road race. But, let's leave me out of it. Everyone in UK is under the same conditions. Not all are 73; believe it or not, some are younger.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 15:15
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Originally Posted by GS-Alpha
The number of potentially infected people entering the UK via its airports is tiny compared to the number of people across the uk who are ignoring the instruction to stay at home and stay more than two metres away from people who do not live with them. Most people are taking it seriously, but plenty are not. The additional risk is therefore pretty low compared to those idiots.
But isn't this precisely how the virus got here in the first place? With a tiny number?

Old, not bold:
Heartily agree with everything you said.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 15:28
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Most of it now is essential movement of people (scientists, Medical experts, diplomats, repatriation) but mainly lots and lots of cargo. Including medical supplies as belly freight.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 16:15
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This isnt about cargo or animals but humans. The whole point about lockdown is to reduce contact. We should have closed China's borders in November and ours in February, but of course we should close them now

My concern is the exit strategy. Like a war, you dont go in unless you have an exit strategy, unless your surname is Bush or Blair. At some point the number of known new cases will go below X which means the true number is 5X. Before we relax lockdown we MUST close our borders to all humans otherwise we will get fresh cases as seen in several other countries. We need to keep the borders closed until we can vaccinate and properly test so we know the total number with antibodies or vaccinated is about 70%. That will be Q3 Q4 2021 but in the meantime Britain can trade, export and import

So we need to do two things within weeks: first tell all Britons abroad that they need to come home within say 6 weeks or be locked out. Flights will need to be organised and everyone must be quarantined on arrival, not 'Scout's honour go home'. Second we need to bale out UK airlines. Fortunately many arent British......

Meantime Air China, Iran Air and flights from Boston and DFW continue to arrive. Many Px may be returning Brits but there is no regulation enforcing this and that results in a longer lockdown and more deaths. We dont need medical experts or scientists, we need testing equipment and ventilators. We dont need diplomats for goodness sake! OK I am ready for the flak and outraged comments but we are not dealing with machines or laws but a virus. It only obeys nature so if you disagree you have to provide an alternative that doesnt kill tens of thousands or further wreck the economy.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 16:49
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We should have closed China's borders in November
Sure, and I should have invested every cent I have in Google the day it IPOed. It would have required exactly the same ability to foretell the future. The first information that there MIGHT be a problem was on December 29th.

Even the mortality rate for over-80s overlooks the fact that for every "confirmed" case there are probably 50 or more that never come to the attention of the authorities because people are either asymptomatic or follow current UK advice, take an aspirin and stay home. And none of the published rates distinguish between people who had significant comorbidities, and who were going to go as soon as they got cold, flu or just about anything else, and those who were still in good shape, regardless of age. Once you take all that into account, this all looks a lot less panic-worthy.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 17:03
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Originally Posted by n5296s
Sure, and I should have invested every cent I have in Google the day it IPOed. It would have required exactly the same ability to foretell the future. The first information that there MIGHT be a problem was on December 29th.

Even the mortality rate for over-80s overlooks the fact that for every "confirmed" case there are probably 50 or more that never come to the attention of the authorities because people are either asymptomatic or follow current UK advice, take an aspirin and stay home. And none of the published rates distinguish between people who had significant comorbidities, and who were going to go as soon as they got cold, flu or just about anything else, and those who were still in good shape, regardless of age. Once you take all that into account, this all looks a lot less panic-worthy.
I wonder how many 13 year old boys and 39 year old nurses in otherwise good health died of the flu within 24 hours of contracting it? Not less panic worthy to their families I would suspect
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 17:03
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I assume you are nitpicking about the date? OK what I meant was 4 weeks or so after we were aware of the pandemic. The date of 29 December is I regret incorrect.

During the first 4 weeks it was clear there was a pathogen spread by the airway and causing deaths. But whatever, it would have been better to close in December, or January, or February - the point is we have done too little too late and there is no published exit strategy.

When did you buy google for interest's sake? I didnt buy until just a few years ago but still made a nice profit.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 18:22
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Originally Posted by n5296s
Sure, and I should have invested every cent I have in Google the day it IPOed. It would have required exactly the same ability to foretell the future. The first information that there MIGHT be a problem was on December 29th.

Even the mortality rate for over-80s overlooks the fact that for every "confirmed" case there are probably 50 or more that never come to the attention of the authorities because people are either asymptomatic or follow current UK advice, take an aspirin and stay home. And none of the published rates distinguish between people who had significant comorbidities, and who were going to go as soon as they got cold, flu or just about anything else, and those who were still in good shape, regardless of age. Once you take all that into account, this all looks a lot less panic-worthy.
Good word 'probably'. But let's suppose you're right. That means 1.5 million with antibodies and 64 million without. That means on your sums we are 2-3% into the epidemic. Until we have random sampling stratified by location, age and gender we cannot possibly know where we are with this thing. First requirement for an exit strategy is to know where you are.
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Old 3rd Apr 2020, 19:06
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Friends ‘stuck’ in Florida tried to get home earlier than planned direct from MCO (Orlando).

Eventually 28 March, Virgin arranged MCO (Delta 737) to JFK – 2 hours layover then to LHR and taxi home. Full flights - mixed with people going onward from LHR, in particular a large contingent going to Amsterdam.

I asked if they were medically checked/reviewed at any point on the journey.

Answer - NO - just advised to quarantine for 14 days. However they had to shop for food.

Looks like an open door to the possible virus carrying
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