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Airbus A321 loses directional control on takeoff

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Airbus A321 loses directional control on takeoff

Old 27th Mar 2020, 09:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu
Been there, done that. Badly judged "rolling take-off" with TLs stood up before aircraft even close to lined up on runway heading. This then required more tiller input which made it worse. I spent next few months blushing with embarrassment each time I passed the very impressive tyre marks I had left on the piano keys.
This you, Deja Vu?
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 09:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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As I recall it the A380 could get you into big trouble if you advanced the outboard engine to help you turn onto the runway then proceeded with a rolling start. something similar perhaps.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 09:58
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Mayday equals life in imminent danger.

Calling Mayday on a low speed RTO is equivalent to calling 000 or 911 for a broken toenail!

Total over-reaction!
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:28
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
No not me, different type and different place but similar event.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 16:19
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DIBO View Post
A/C: "Mayday,May..."
...a few seconds later...
TWR: "Do you require any assistance right now?"
A/C: "Negative"


If the crew could do it over again, they most probably wouldn't use the M-word again. Training instinct kicking in? Like the crashing 777 at LHR, using the training callsign for their mayday call
And just maybe they had more important things to focus on, than the optimal phraseology?
Wow.. Ref that 777LHR do you have a link, I'd like to look it up thanks.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 16:46
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morismarina View Post
Wow.. Ref that 777LHR do you have a link, I'd like to look it up thanks.
Here's a reference from a post on Quora:

Captain Peter Burkill of British Airways 38 explains his radio call, “Speedbird, Speedbird, 95, 95,” in his book, Thirty Seconds to Impact. He said “Speedbird” twice because he was trying to remember the flight number. Even so, he got it wrong—BA 95 was the next flight he was scheduled to operate. He didn’t realize his mistake until he heard the CVR recording during the investigation. But his error was inconsequential, as there was no active “Speedbird 95” at the time and it was obvious which aircraft had crashed.
https://www.quora.com/When-British-A...fore-the-crash
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 16:52
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
Mayday equals life in imminent danger.

Calling Mayday on a low speed RTO is equivalent to calling 000 or 911 for a broken toenail!

Total over-reaction!
Bollocks. If I'm stuck on a runway with an aircraft on approach behind me, I am in imminent danger.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 17:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morismarina View Post
Wow.. Ref that 777LHR do you have a link, I'd like to look it up thanks.
This
gives a nice recording of the events. "Speedbird 38" was the flight's callsign and the Mayday call was done using "Speedbird 95" as callsign. I was led to believe back in those days, that this was a non-exisiting flightno. often used in the sim sessions.
However, looking things up again 10 years later, I see that info was incorrect and based on his book, the captain in the heat of the moment simply used a wrong callsign (the one from his next flight, it seems). And he was surprised during the investigations, hearing himself doing just that.

Edit: seems I was very slow on the keyboard, Airbubba already provided a similar answer

As for the A321 mishap, it seems that Mayday is AirTransat SOP for rejects, so my referring to possible training drills/instincts kicking in, is irrelevant...
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 17:34
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DIBO View Post
Mayday call was done using "Speedbird 95" as callsign. I was led to believe back in those days, that this was a non-exisiting flightno. often used in the sim sessions.
However, looking things up again 10 years later, I see that info was incorrect and based on his book, the captain in the heat of the moment simply used a wrong callsign (the one from his next flight, it seems). And he was surprised during the investigations, hearing himself doing just that..
Back in those days BA95 was LHR-YMX-DTW. Just etched in my mind from 12yrs there!
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 23:22
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mustafagander View Post
As I recall it the A380 could get you into big trouble if you advanced the outboard engine to help you turn onto the runway then proceeded with a rolling start. something similar perhaps.
Also an issue with 747s. I studied several FDR files over the years after the pilots RTO'd and reported an asymmetric accel "engine control" problem when in fact they simply hadn't allowed the outboard engine to return to idle before advancing the throttles for takeoff.
However if they'd followed the SOP of allowing the engines to stabilize at 1.10 EPR/40% N1 before engaging the A/T it wouldn't have been a problem...
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 05:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Although apparently not the issue in the subject incident...Asymmetric spool-up on takeoff may cause loss of directional control.

Engine failure during the takeoff below VMCG will cause a loss of directional control (that is how VMCG is determined).
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Old 28th Mar 2020, 11:45
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
Mayday equals life in imminent danger.
Calling Mayday on a low speed RTO is equivalent to calling 000 or 911 for a broken toenail!
Total over-reaction!
More like calling 000 or 911 for a broken cam belt in the middle lane of a freeway.
nonsense is online now  
Old 28th Mar 2020, 18:02
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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So has the learned jury reached its conclusion?

Maybe time to park the armchairs and get on with life - er - oh...
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 02:18
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mustafagander View Post
As I recall it the A380 could get you into big trouble if you advanced the outboard engine to help you turn onto the runway then proceeded with a rolling start. something similar perhaps.
The 380 engines are very laggy from ground idle. Using one to help the line up makes that engine wind up rapidly compared to the others. Not a problem if you wait for them all to match up at 30% or so, but a gotcha otherwise.
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Old 29th Mar 2020, 06:28
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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A 707 ran off the runway in Rome some years back. A rearwards cg lightened the load on the nosewheel, the FO was operating the steering while the captain advanced the throttles while they had not yet lined up. Nosewheel on full deflection just skidded along, and it was too late before the throttles came back and the bird stopped in the grass.
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