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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

Old 26th Mar 2020, 19:27
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Not that all the 1000s of employees deserve to pay for the sins of the greedy executives.
I really hope that this will throw a spotlight on CEO pay and be a watershed for boardroom greed if any good can come out of it.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 22:27
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Quite right. Shouldn’t the owners bail out their own companies first? When they’re on the point of collapse, and if it’s in the public interest, maybe public money should be put in. I’d expect drastic changes in the boardrooms and executive pay and bonuses to be slashed. Hopefully, the government learnt its lesson from the banking bailout.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 00:37
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Without being political, what seems most strange is that all the right wing Tory policies that they thought served them best over the last 12 years (corporate super-profits, austerity for the working classes, privatising the NHS, stopping the nanny state, and going ultra-small state intervention, oh and isolating ourselves from our colleagues in Govts across Europe who want a collaborative approach).... are now seen as completely the opposite of what we all are crying out for now (care workers, nurses, delivery drivers, sorters, stackers, ie: all those on minimum wages, gig economy types, and migrants that we apparently thought should go home). Since 2016 we have driven 50,000+ NHS workers out of the country because we didn't want them.
Without being political, privatisation of the NHS has been going on longer than 12 years. It started under Blair (who else!). Just saying.


nationalization comes to mind...and kick out those blood sucking CEOs who's wages largly depend on stock exchange values.
Only when the stockmarket is high: their wages haven't collapsed in line with the stockmarket this last month.


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Old 27th Mar 2020, 01:12
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hec7or View Post
I really hope that this will throw a spotlight on CEO pay and be a watershed for boardroom greed if any good can come out of it.
If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company..... HHHHmmMMM
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:09
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Anyway as far as Sallyanne comment on Zoom etc we use them a lot as a company, and personally have been using video conferencing since late 80,s when you needed video conferencing suites to do it, but I was still doing a minimum of 2 transatlantic s a month regardless, as people want to interact with you, and know you, and watching a monitor does not appear to work as well as the makers and suppliers would like because we are human. Therefore I do think Business travel will come back, but leisure maybe a little slower, and more so at the lower end of the market as that section of society will financially hurt the most as ever.
Mr Mac
I fully agree! And good luck if you rely only on videoconferencing to do business with persons of other culture, not only language but culture....
.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:42
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Late to the thread but all I can say is good riddance. No bailouts for the banks, aviation or the rail companies should be given.

​​​​​For far too long customers have been squeezed and screwed over by companies in the name of soaring profits and dividend payouts. Especially in aviation employees have been treated like dirt too whilst their senior management teams sat on inflated pay rises and bonuses. We're all in it together? My backside we are.

So kindly take your dwindling profits and sob stories and sod off. Use your bottom line to fight your way through this mess like the rest of us are having to do. If your banking agreements and credit lines don't extend far enough so that you collapse, so be it.

Why is that when there's a crisis like this individuals are expected to be sat on a ton of personal savings to see us through it all with no bailouts and no protection from blatant price gouging by greedy companies. Yet the moment the going gets tough for big companies they go running to the government begging for more of our tax money.

Airlines are rotten to the core anyway. Its time for a shake up.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:42
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company.....
with respect, this is precisely the tosh that is always trotted out to justify CEO greed, look at the car crash demonstration of boardroom incompetence over at Boeing and the wreckage they have made of a former world leader.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 08:09
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cashash View Post
The big difference between now and 9/11 is that after 9/11 most of the economy was intact
no it wasnít, far from it.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 09:39
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company.....
Who said you have to divide it among all the employees and leave them with nothing? How much would you need to earn to fund a luxury lifestyle? 1 million, 2, 5 at a push?

https://www.payscale.com/data-packag...-pay/full-list


Total compensation: https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos and https://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Rank_1.html
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:20
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bidule View Post
I fully agree! And good luck if you rely only on videoconferencing to do business with persons of other culture, not only language but culture....
.
If you're going out into the world to find new business then of course you will fly there, no question.
But for routine progress meetings, why travel? I'm actually looking forward to one that I can do without leaving home. There is little pleasure in airline flight these days.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:24
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cashash View Post
Well the argument is that with these multinational groups with diverse ownership patterns then if the airline cannot survive the Government should just nationalise the UK part.
they can then merge, them, so there is 1 full service long haul, 1 low cost short haul and 1 beach holiday charter type....3 airlines per country max, all on the lowest T&Cs of each get rid of thousands of crew and office staff, bankrupt a few lessor by returning hundreds of aircraft. run for 5 years then start selling bits off again to get some cash back into the government coffers?

Even more complex with the tour operators however, since of course the tour operator is needed for the airline to operate, they can't be treated as separate and many have functions spread across the various countries. They will be a bigger challenge than the scheduled airlines, but guess they could just close the airlines and hope the tour operators survive and force them to fly passengers on the other 2 airlines (shorthaul low cost and longhaul full service)
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 12:44
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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To be honest and i am talking against my own professional domaine, i hope there will be less air traffic in the post corona era. The customer was simply spoiled with choices of airlines and destinations. All this was leading to eroding terms and conditions. And top of that: why do we have to do 6 city trips a year, going shopping in new york on a friday and coming back on a sunday or having a weekend party in Ibiza?

Why cant we just be happy with a normal trip bike or hike on a sunny day?

To be honest, at the moment i like the peace and hearing the birds again. Or am i just too old fashioned?

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Old 27th Mar 2020, 13:39
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hec7or View Post
with respect, this is precisely the tosh that is always trotted out to justify CEO greed, look at the car crash demonstration of boardroom incompetence over at Boeing and the wreckage they have made of a former world leader.

I don't see where the Board has anything to do with the detailed workings of validating the software-pilot interactions of a single aircraft.

Now if you have other evidence of something that the boardroom affects than carry on with facts analysis
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:31
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
no it wasnít, far from it.

Not sure how you are measuring that - the country didn't go into recession in 2001 or see a rise in unemployment.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:39
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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By any measure, the US was well into recession by the time 9/11 happened. As was the European Union. If youíre talking the U.K. then no, but only just. It was no bed of roses in 2001. Just look at Enron.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:59
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I don't see where the Board has anything to do with the detailed workings of validating the software-pilot interactions of a single aircraft.

Now if you have other evidence of something that the boardroom affects than carry on with facts analysis
Well they sacked the CEO, I think that constitutes sufficient evidence.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 15:07
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by shamrock_f22 View Post
Airlines are rotten to the core anyway. Its time for a shake up.
And you think less competition will fix the problems of poor staff and customer treatment?
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 16:40
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by marchino61 View Post
You sound like a real joy to fly with. Pity I don't know which airline you work for, or I'd avoid it.
Am i there to entertain you ? Quite the reverse, Iím unfailingly optimistic - I just donít know why non pilots come on PPRuNe to slag off pilots jobs-

Anyway it wonít matter to you down the back, as long as we are on time and the WiFi works
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 17:58
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Why should he bailout businesses who are sat on huge piles of cash?

Why should be bailout huge companies who are willing to shaft staff members for the sake of satisfying shareholders?

I think he's doing a good job.
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Old 27th Mar 2020, 18:16
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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The issue here is how will the Government deal with the banks-they got a pass in 2008 when many CEOs should have gone to prison.

Things are different this time and it is indeed the time for the government to call in the cheques they wrote the banks. Essentially they need to freeze the economy for three months and keep it ticking over but in good shape to rebound. This mean nationalising the banks-not in the true sense but not allowing them to take decisions so that all act as one directed by the Gov or BoE and the Chancellor. the Chancellor is a bit of a dubious character because he made money from peoples suffering in 2008 but he is a very clever competent man and he like the banks owes the general population big time.

As we ahve seen it needs central direction to ensure that where one part of an industry shuts down it all will. Otherwise they will all cheat and we will be picking up an even bigger tab than before.

As for the airlines I agree they should be kept afloat but because some are needed-BA and Ez for sure VS less of a case but
.as for Ryanair-sorry Mr O'Leary but its payback time-you are toast.- if Ryanair is helped one of the provsions is that O Leary and any of his henchmen all take a bullet for the rest of the staff.

Once such control measures are in place-they happened in wartime so theres not much new the Government can gradually ease things back to normality in three months or whatever and allow the economy to recover in a structured way. its not capitalism but capitalism soon becomes communism when the chips are really down as we have seen demonstrated all over the world in the last few weeks.
the final point is a years delay to leaving the Eu , the Uk is far far too small and weak to survive two economic shocks in one year and despite the comments on another thread earlier about Britain and punching above its wake in the Falklands-thats ancient history. we didnt then without US abandoning a Munroe doctrine policy and France giving us the specs of Exocets effectively neutralising the only significant Argentine weapon and we cannot do so now.
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