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UK to Leave EASA

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UK to Leave EASA

Old 7th Mar 2020, 20:22
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CEJM
I fail to understand why this is such a surprise to anybody. Membership of EASA is contingent upon accepting the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union, something the government has ruled out from the beginning. One of the main Brexit points was to “take back control” and not being subject to the ECJ.
Yes, not a surprise. I've been saying that it didn't add up to be in easa with govt position in real life for a while.
I don't really see the benefit (but then I didn't of brexit) in any tangible form.
I don't really know how big say Transport Canada is but they own their certification I think. Not sure I'd want to operate under Canadian FTL though...
I can't see the new CAA being say more anti fatigue than easa because industry would see that as being uncompetitive.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 20:48
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KeyPilot
This is inevitable, for the reasons Shapps says.

And also a good thing - in my opinion!
a good thing? you have to be joking!
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 21:07
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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a cancer of stupidity spreading through the UK

I'm afraid the reality is that the UK has been taken over by a fanatical group of people that hate Europe and hate Europeans, Brexiteers are akin to members of the National Front, going back to the old CAA national licence is a pathetic move, we are now a nation with a cancer of stupidity spreading through our population.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 21:46
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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I have had the privilege of paying fees to convert my UK CAA ATPL to JAA ATPL to EASA ATPL and now back to UK CAA ATPL meanwhile flying the same aircraft on all the same routes.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 22:37
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RVR800
GS announcement was made in US (Washington) - is he minded to implement FAR?
I'd say that the FAA's oversight of airline aviation is about right. As with any bureaucracy there will be some idiotic rules and enforcement but on the whole at the professional level I don't really wish they did more or did less.

Knowing that the feds can pop up at anytime keeps both the pilots and the companies pretty honest in my observation.

I don't think I've ever bragged about how hard it is to get a pilot's license in the U.S. I think Americans are more concerned with how much money we make and how much time off we enjoy. Other cultures are probably more interested in the number of stripes on the uniform and post nominal letters.

Will the CAA reinvent the wheel once more for a relatively small pilot market? Or, will they adopt (or re-adopt) successful rules already in place elsewhere? I think we already know the answer to that one.
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 22:56
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Shapps does not have the power to make such a decision!

He told me on several occasions that there is no reason why the UK cannot be a non-EU EASA Member State such as Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland currently are.

Those UK citizens who wish the UK to remain in EASA should write to their MP! Mine is Robert Courts; on 29th October 2018 he wrote:
You will be aware that the Government is seeking a comprehensive air transport deal with the EU which secures continued participation within the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) system.
He also wrote a footnote in manuscript stating:
P.S. Good to gear from you on this point; I hope this is reassuring.


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Old 7th Mar 2020, 23:12
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Honestly - the lunatics are taking over.
Anyone who thinks that we'll be going back to the old FTLs is utterly, utterly deluded. It will be all the CAA can do for the 1st ten years to keep the existing AOC holders operating - they won't have time to return to the days of Empire, I'm afraid. And how are we going to certify aircraft? And anyone that has had anything to do with the medical department knows that, err, THERE ISN"T ONE. I'm looking forward to the absolute chaos of putting this Daily Mail driven idiocy into place. It's gonna be bad...
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Old 7th Mar 2020, 23:26
  #68 (permalink)  
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From a PAX perspective, I have no desire to see the FAA and their worldview anywhere near the UK. They have as much forgiveness to beg as Boeing.

Yet again we see the British thinking that they can go back to a better time. One of the staples of politcians is to claim that by 'going back' we can 'go forward'. Yet we all know that in our private lives this can never be acheived - so why do so many people buy this idea of a whole country going back to the future? It sounds easy and safe but experience says otherwise.

Whatever the CAA might be now, it is not gold standard for, in all the 19 years I have been in these forums - I have never heard a good word about the CAA. I have heard people defending many things but never the CAA. As has been said, to build up a new organisation will take more then five years. Respect from the rest of the world will have to be earned, especially if we cozy up to the FAA whose name is below mud.

One example of British govt incompetence: They stated that they would secure the borders of this country. We were supposed to have left the EU nearly a year ago - yet our outgoing borders are still open. Consequently, Whitehall has zero idea of who has left, or has not and overstayed their Visa. They had three years to recruit and train staff for that and failed. How long to build up a CAA? I know, just hire in your old mates from the golf course who say they know what to do ...

EASA may be many things but it is agreement with our neighbours and trading partners. Agreements reduce admin costs. But all is being lost by little boys playing at being politicians. The EU has seen three years of Sabre rattling and have our measure.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 00:45
  #69 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Shapps does not have the power to make such a decision!

He told me on several occasions that there is no reason why the UK cannot be a non-EU EASA Member State such as Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland currently are.

Those UK citizens who wish the UK to remain in EASA should write to their MP! Mine is Robert Courts; on 29th October 2018 he wrote: He also wrote a footnote in manuscript stating:
Perhaps a more accurate view now might be that Shapps doesn't have the power to oppose such a decision.

Perhaps if you revisit the subject with him now, he may be able to tell you the reasons against that he previously suggested would not exist. Then again, if he criticises his cabinet colleagues too much he can find himself a new job and be replaced with someone more compliant.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 04:25
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Why are people so surprised and alarmed, that a post-Brexit UK government wants to take back control of the country's own laws as they relate to aviation?

Continuing as a non-EU EASA member is vassalage pure and simple. All the non-EU EASA members have far smaller populations - and aviation sectors - than the UK's.

And as for "it will take the CAA 10 years to become capable" - this is just project fear all over again. How long did it take EASA to set up? And that was really from scratch, in a city without a major aviation industry.

Post-EASA Britain will do just fine.

Last edited by KeyPilot; 8th Mar 2020 at 04:31. Reason: correct typo
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 06:01
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PAXboy
From a PAX perspective, I have no desire to see the FAA and their worldview anywhere near the UK. They have as much forgiveness to beg as Boeing.
Looks like the CAA is going to be doing the begging that the FAA will accept their work once they are out of EASA. If the CAA certification can't measure up to FAA standards, the world's largest aviation market will take its business elsewhere.

As cited above:

The UK aerospace industry, which has a highly-regulated global supply chain, relies on membership of EASA to maintain common safety and certification standards that are also acceptable to the US safety agency, the Federal Aviation Administration.
From the article DaveReidUK posted:

Aerospace companies based in countries without aviation regulatory compliance with EASA [or the FAA] find selling aerospace products and providing aviation services to the US and Europe, and indeed other countries outside their immediate jurisdiction, difficult and subject to additional work. This is because EASA and the US FAA standards form the benchmark for products and services so companies will be required to show their products match up to these benchmark standards.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 06:56
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
Looks like the CAA is going to be doing the begging that the FAA will accept their work once they are out of EASA. If the CAA certification can't measure up to FAA standards, the world's largest aviation market will take its business elsewhere.

As cited above:



From the article DaveReidUK posted:
There was a time when UK standards were the reference for much of the world. They still are to a degree - long-withdrawn BCARs/CAPs/... are still used by some countries!
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 07:49
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Key pilot.... yes exactly, there WAS a time.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:34
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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I'm intrigued. Given that over the past few years UK nationals working in EASA and the various other European agencies will, like me, have been acquiring some form of European citizenship (and EASA is in Germany, which allows dual UK-German citizenship if applied for before the end of the transition period), how many Brits will be willing to move back? Their jobs are secure, and if they've been working in Cologne since the beginning, as implied by Mr. Shapps, their lives must be pretty stable? Move back to regulate what little manufacturing is left?
I work in automotive at the moment, and have acquired a second European passport to maintain my position here. It would take quite the package to persuade me back right now.
I doubt that the UK has any right of recall over these people - they aren't diplomats - and so will have to be tempted back. What would tempt you back? Assuming, that is, that you aren't one of the jingoistic sorts on here who would never have gone in the first place...
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:41
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Shapps does not have the power to make such a decision!

He told me on several occasions that there is no reason why the UK cannot be a non-EU EASA Member State such as Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland currently are.
Then you're Mr. Shapps is an even bigger idiot than politicians in general. Remaining as a non-EU member of EASA would mean accepting the ECJ as the legal arbitrator, and the UK has made it abundantly clear that's not going to happen.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 08:55
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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The CAA employs as many people today as it did prior to EASA.

WWW
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:01
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SMT Member
Then you're Mr. Shapps is an even bigger idiot than politicians in general. Remaining as a non-EU member of EASA would mean accepting the ECJ as the legal arbitrator, and the UK has made it abundantly clear that's not going to happen.
Indeed. Anyone who thinks we were ever going to stay in EASA under Boris, is kidding themselves. It is totally contrary to the philosophy towards Brexit of his government.

Instead of lobbying MPs for something which won't happen, let's all do what we can to make UK PLC work in the new post-Brexit (and post-EASA) world.
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:05
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Also re this BS about it taking 10 years for the CAA to build up again - we can have a policy unilaterally to accept EASA licenses/Cs of A/etc. etc. without even validations required, for a transition period of even several years if needs be.

All will be well!
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:09
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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How many of those here who think this is a good idea have any skin in the game?
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 09:12
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Originally Posted by ShotOne
How many of those here who think this is a good idea have any skin in the game?
Er, me for one.

Plus we all do for sake of our industry & wider economy
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