Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Air Canada 767 Problems at Madrid

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Air Canada 767 Problems at Madrid

Old 4th Feb 2020, 02:55
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ???
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
holding for 4 hours on 1 engine due to overweight landing/tyre damage. I havent done the landing perf assessment but I doubt it would have been a major problem to bring it right back
InSoMnIaC is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 04:18
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: the ridge where the west commences
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you have departed from a runway you can safely land on that runway with one engine, or safely go-around after a single-engine approach to that runway. This assessment can be done in one half of a second. It is unclear what proportion of the four hours was occupied by this assessment.
Dropp the Pilot is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 04:21
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Melbourne
Age: 68
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don’t know about the B767 but on the B737 if the engine runs surge and stall free at reduced thrust and engine indications are stable there is no requirement to land at the nearest suitable airport. Suspect they did a good job.
George Glass is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 06:07
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bringing it straight back may be ok In terms of performance and distance etc but tyre speed limits may be a factor at very high weights and certain ambient conditions and light winds.

Can’t speak for 767 but on 738 it’s 200mph and that can be achieved on touchdown at certain high weights and the right ambient conditions.

Losing more tyres on landing due to exceeding tyre speed limits may have been a consideration.

ps especially if planning less than normal flap settings for landing after tyre damage to engine or flaps etc
Say Mach Number is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 06:48
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Uka Duka
Posts: 1,003
Received 37 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Therhino
I wrote the material below in a thread some time back to explain the regulation that contains the requirements that determine whether a jettison system must be installed.
Thanks Dave and to all above who posted such informative responses to my query.
Auxtank is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 06:51
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
on avherald it is stated that they had one MLG tyre blown and they shut down the #1 engine. The info of the one tyre came apparently from the f18.

I am purely wondering, not judging, why did they continue for so long on one engine?
This is a sticky situation. Continue with only one engine or land at high Gross Weight with (at least) one tyre damaged. I think given the info I probably would have landed “at the nearest suitable airport”. In any case, they landed safely so kudos to the crew.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 07:36
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This moves into the "multi fail" scenario. One engine out, land. Yes , Drop the pilot . We would all love to live in your easy world . But these guys faced potential of gear problem too . Burn fuel to lowest LW. Now, two scenarios tied together and you see why we are paid all this money eh ? Very good co-ordinated decisions led to safe outcome. Are we asked for anything more ?Tough job well done indeed.
Landflap is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 08:42
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the lake
Age: 82
Posts: 670
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Landflap
This moves into the "multi fail" scenario. One engine out, land. Yes , Drop the pilot . We would all love to live in your easy world . But these guys faced potential of gear problem too . Burn fuel to lowest LW. Now, two scenarios tied together and you see why we are paid all this money eh ? Very good co-ordinated decisions led to safe outcome. Are we asked for anything more ?Tough job well done indeed.
AMEN! Would that all should have such a successful outcome.
twochai is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 09:26
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr Mac
Well done AC but I would bet that was a long 4hrs for SLF and crew up there.
kind regards

Mr Mac
As long as a sim session
A320LGW is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 09:58
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 70
Posts: 276
Received 28 Likes on 17 Posts
Was on a SK B767 having one engine go bang climbing out of PEK heading for CPH. They turned around and landed ASAP, no damage anywhere else though.
Per
Ancient Mariner is online now  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 11:16
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: the hills of halton
Age: 71
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by admiral ackbar
From Flyertalk


as a matter of interest what are the green thingies next to the wheels
widgeon is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 11:19
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,684
Received 342 Likes on 113 Posts
Originally Posted by widgeon
as a matter of interest what are the green thingies next to the wheels
brake cooling fans
Beamr is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 13:42
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: ???
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dropp the Pilot
If you have departed from a runway you can safely land on that runway with one engine, or safely go-around after a single-engine approach to that runway. This assessment can be done in one half of a second. It is unclear what proportion of the four hours was occupied by this assessment.

An overly simplistic approach to a complicated scenario.
InSoMnIaC is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 14:07
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sunny Jersey
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I will be interested to understand the sequence of events which led to the failures observed.
As the MLG is quite far aft of the intake for the engines, although plausible, is it likely that a burst tyre, especially one on the rear axle, would eject debris far enough forward to be ingested?
I know that the engine intake danger areas extend around and aft of the intake itself, especially at high-power settings, and that forward speed of the a/c at the time of the tyre failure could influence this scenario, however, is it possible that the engine damage was caused by other debris, which in turn led to the ejection of shrapnel into the tyre causing it's subsequent failure?
discorules is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:13
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MOW
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by discorules
As the MLG is quite far aft of the intake for the engines, although plausible, is it likely that a burst tyre, especially one on the rear axle, would eject debris far enough forward to be ingested?
The upper part of the tire moves at twice the speed of the AC, so yes, the debris can fly forward enough.
jantar99 is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 07:36
  #56 (permalink)  
BRE
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jantar99
The upper part of the tire moves at twice the speed of the AC, so yes, the debris can fly forward enough.
You have chosen a strange reference point for that statement. Let's just say the upper surface moves away from the aircraft at the aircraft's speed.

BRE is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 14:22
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: 900m
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BRE
You have chosen a strange reference point for that statement. Let's just say the upper surface moves away from the aircraft at the aircraft's speed.
Having had this happen at Vrot, I can assure you that the tyre doesn’t give a monkey’s about the reference point. It goes Bang and bits fly in all directions.
Twitter is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 14:32
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Age: 56
Posts: 953
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BRE
You have chosen a strange reference point for that statement. Let's just say the upper surface moves away from the aircraft at the aircraft's speed.
And in the same direction (otherwise it could be just lying on the ground).
hans brinker is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 14:58
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Outer ring of HEL
Posts: 1,684
Received 342 Likes on 113 Posts
Originally Posted by jantar99
The upper part of the tire moves at twice the speed of the AC, so yes, the debris can fly forward enough.
I'm terribly sorry but I don't follow;
if ground speed is 100knots, the tyre outer skin is rolling at exactly 100 knots against the tarmac.
if it would go faster or slower, you would be burning rubber.
If the tyre it self would be going faster than the AC, you'd have a bit of a rush to catch it.
Beamr is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2020, 15:39
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Beamr
I'm terribly sorry but I don't follow;
if ground speed is 100knots, the tyre outer skin is rolling at exactly 100 knots against the tarmac.
if it would go faster or slower, you would be burning rubber.
If the tyre it self would be going faster than the AC, you'd have a bit of a rush to catch it.
And the entire tread is rotating at 100 knots around the centre. So, the very top is moving forwards at 100 knots
cats_five is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.