777X set for January 23rd first flight
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt
Too bad we don't have a live feed from the cockpit like for the A380 first flight. That'd be great.
Originally Posted by halfwinged
if I may quote Mr. Cashman:
This was during his retirement (according to the source seattlepi): After 40 years at Boeing, chief test pilot John Cashman is retiring
Is interesting about what I think we all agree here. Unlike other pieces of hardware and software nowadays, where the design phase 'catches all they can get' and after release the product, so the market starts using it and report back the 'glitches' or 'faults' so fixes are applied later on. There's a small-huge difference on an airplane:
The flight test engineers and test pilots are trained to try, find and correct those glitches and errors. But the common day-by-day pilot may not fall into that category, and when faced with the unknown may react differently.
At that point, the pilots cannot just 'shut down and restart' or stop in the middle of the air to report the glitch to the manufacturer.
As the machines we fly become more sophisticated, there is more things that lies deep buried on the software coding and hardware that is supposed to 'kick-in' at the right time, to save the day. In the past, that hardware was the pilot, and the software was their ability, experience, feeling, etc., right now, well, it seems that the direction is other. Machines that 'automatically' correct, the errors or situations. Until it gets to the point of being 'out-of-the-script', when something happens that is outside that predefined set of 'triggers' and we have to rely again on the pilots.
Is an interesting paradox to think about, when everything is pointing to the point of 'single pilot' crew (save money, maximize profit), completely automated flight (idem)... hell, when machines are operating, who will be responsible if something goes wrong?. Be aware Boeing / Airbus... you will... there will be no more 'pilot error' mentioned on the investigations... will you take the bet?
This was during his retirement (according to the source seattlepi): After 40 years at Boeing, chief test pilot John Cashman is retiring
Is interesting about what I think we all agree here. Unlike other pieces of hardware and software nowadays, where the design phase 'catches all they can get' and after release the product, so the market starts using it and report back the 'glitches' or 'faults' so fixes are applied later on. There's a small-huge difference on an airplane:
The flight test engineers and test pilots are trained to try, find and correct those glitches and errors. But the common day-by-day pilot may not fall into that category, and when faced with the unknown may react differently.
At that point, the pilots cannot just 'shut down and restart' or stop in the middle of the air to report the glitch to the manufacturer.
As the machines we fly become more sophisticated, there is more things that lies deep buried on the software coding and hardware that is supposed to 'kick-in' at the right time, to save the day. In the past, that hardware was the pilot, and the software was their ability, experience, feeling, etc., right now, well, it seems that the direction is other. Machines that 'automatically' correct, the errors or situations. Until it gets to the point of being 'out-of-the-script', when something happens that is outside that predefined set of 'triggers' and we have to rely again on the pilots.
Is an interesting paradox to think about, when everything is pointing to the point of 'single pilot' crew (save money, maximize profit), completely automated flight (idem)... hell, when machines are operating, who will be responsible if something goes wrong?. Be aware Boeing / Airbus... you will... there will be no more 'pilot error' mentioned on the investigations... will you take the bet?
For those interested YT has the whole of the excellent "21st Century Jet - The Building Of The 777" - here (link below); in which John Cashman features in his role as Chief Test Pilot for the project. He argues a lot with the designers - and as 'Halfwinged' says; mostly about getting things right from the 'getgo' and not relying on customers having to beta-check Boeing's work. How true. History having maybe now shown what the flip-side of NOT doing that extra work results in...
Won't take anything away from Boeing today though - that 777X looks marvellous.
Last edited by Auxtank; 25th Jan 2020 at 17:52.
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Amazingly I was watching exactly that documentary Mr. Auxtank 
Is amazing how much effort is set on these beautiful birds... you immediately have to love them... even if they are only machines...
that is why I think is time for reflection and action on Boeing, I have seen on this documentary, what I'm seeing now where I'm working, those same issues about internal discussions: -you did this-, -your department missed that-
while at the end, what the customer and the user sees is the final working product, and everybody have to work together to achieve it.
Is very hard to manage such a monumental engineering task to build a new model plane, derived or not..., that is a shame that goes ruined for, i.e., a mere piece of software poorly designed, or a crack formed in the wrong position, or other issues, that at the moment had the potential of being rectified. Listen to your workers, to the experience, and to the engineers is a must... they are the ones in contact with the metal (or the composites today...
Well done today Boeing... hope that, as Mr. Cashman's said, 'you find all the 'things', so your customers don't have to...' for this model, and for all the company models... good winds on the testing phase! lets see that bird touchdown now!...
Is amazing how much effort is set on these beautiful birds... you immediately have to love them... even if they are only machines...
that is why I think is time for reflection and action on Boeing, I have seen on this documentary, what I'm seeing now where I'm working, those same issues about internal discussions: -you did this-, -your department missed that-
while at the end, what the customer and the user sees is the final working product, and everybody have to work together to achieve it.
Is very hard to manage such a monumental engineering task to build a new model plane, derived or not..., that is a shame that goes ruined for, i.e., a mere piece of software poorly designed, or a crack formed in the wrong position, or other issues, that at the moment had the potential of being rectified. Listen to your workers, to the experience, and to the engineers is a must... they are the ones in contact with the metal (or the composites today...
Well done today Boeing... hope that, as Mr. Cashman's said, 'you find all the 'things', so your customers don't have to...' for this model, and for all the company models... good winds on the testing phase! lets see that bird touchdown now!...
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Congratulations Boeing! I loved the sound of the engines.
I noticed something during the takeoff that looked a bit strange. Maybe it was an optical illusion, but it seemed the MLG began leaving the ground at least a second before the nose gear.
I noticed something during the takeoff that looked a bit strange. Maybe it was an optical illusion, but it seemed the MLG began leaving the ground at least a second before the nose gear.
Originally Posted by tdracer
Planned to be around a five hour flight - fairly ambitious for a first flight - landing at Boeing Field around 3pm local.
Originally Posted by Auxtank
Let us know when she's landed safe tdracer...
Originally Posted by tdracer
Looks like they just flew past Mount Rainier, after flying round Moses Lake for a couple hours. It's solid overcast here, but maybe it's clear enough by Mount Rainier to get the obligatory photos of the new aircraft with Mount Rainier in the background
MikeSnow - very gentle TO so what you saw was compression coming off the MLG as the lift came in to those lovely new wings. Then of course, nose up, FD and the rest is a lovely TO from this excellent new airframe.
Well spotted.
Post flight presser going on right now.
Auxtank, it depends of the upper altitude of the cloud layer. Rainier rising above a low cloud layer looks really impressive (been lucky enough to see that a few times - once by the light of a full moon). If they got some shots like that I'm sure they'd be really happy.
Auxtank, it depends of the upper altitude of the cloud layer. Rainier rising above a low cloud layer looks really impressive (been lucky enough to see that a few times - once by the light of a full moon). If they got some shots like that I'm sure they'd be really happy.
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Originally Posted by Locking Nut
After everything Boeing have been through over the last year or so, you can sort of see why that might have been a little too far into the realms of tempting fate.
Did they use to provide cockpit feeds before the MAX disasters ?
Or maybe just an issue with transparency ?
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I wonder if it was disappointing to Boeing when one sees the airlines that have associated themselves with this launch:
ANA, British Airways, Qatar, Singapore, Cathay Pacific, Emirates, Etihad & Lufthansa. Not a single US airline there!
ANA, British Airways, Qatar, Singapore, Cathay Pacific, Emirates, Etihad & Lufthansa. Not a single US airline there!
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Originally Posted by VH DSJ
Why do they leave the landing gear down on these first test flights? I recall the the first 787 test flight also did the same.
