Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Thomas Cook Gone

Wikiposts
Search
Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Thomas Cook Gone

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Sep 2019, 08:41
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,659
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by clivegore
Nobody on here has mentioned that the credit card companies were holding back £50 million from tcx . This is outrageous that they can just refuse to hand over the cash and cause the business to become insolvent.

This is standard practice as agreed between the CC company and the merchant as part of their initial contract. The CC company keeps a proportion of advance payments (holidays and air tickets being a classic example) until the service is delivered, in case it has not been and the CC company is then on the hook for the refund. Thomas Cook would have known exactly what the Holdback percentages were and how they are varied.
WHBM is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:05
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I see that TCG had a balance sheet deficiency in excess of £3.1 billion.
Mr @ Spotty M is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 09:27
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Midlands
Age: 78
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Regarding the BA situation - they have always charged hugely for single flights. Before the failure I checked for my son who is stuck in SFO. A single flight back with BA SFO to LHR was over $2000, whilst a return was only half of that, I have never understood that logic.

Anyway, full marks to BA reservations yesterday who very quickly offered him a free flight on the right day to LHR as per the CAA arrangements.
Old and Horrified is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:05
  #104 (permalink)  
BRE
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From slate: "On Monday, the U.K.’s Civil Aviation Authority began organizing for British tourists to be flown back. The CAA said it expects to run 1,000 flights from 55 destinations to retrieve the British passengers."

1000 flights x 200 pax = 10,000 pax out of 150,000 stranded? And a 200 average is generous unless they are getting a signficant number of 747/A380 in the mix.
BRE is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:17
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Paris
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by BRE
From slate: "On Monday, the U.K.’s Civil Aviation Authority began organizing for British tourists to be flown back. The CAA said it expects to run 1,000 flights from 55 destinations to retrieve the British passengers."

1000 flights x 200 pax = 10,000 pax out of 150,000 stranded? And a 200 average is generous unless they are getting a signficant number of 747/A380 in the mix.
1000 x 200 = 200 000
romiglups is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 10:22
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: glasgow
Posts: 386
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And there are 2 A-380s being used from Malaysian and Hi Fly.
renfrew is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 11:05
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,822
Received 206 Likes on 94 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
Glasgow airport has impounded four TC aircraft against fees owed.

However my understanding is that if the aircraft are leased or on finance they have no claim.


"Any airport owned or managed by any government department, the British Airports Authority (BAA) or a local authority and any airport designated for these purposes by the Secretary of State may under s.88 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982 detain any aircraft belonging to or operated by a person where that person has failed to pay airport charges. As with navigation charges, this is the case even if the charges relate to another aircraft owned or operated by that person. An aircraft may be detained for charges incurred in relation to it by a previous operator as the charges will follow the aircraft if not paid."
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 12:19
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by renfrew
And there are 2 A-380s being used from Malaysian and Hi Fly.
Hi Fly own A380??
jmmoric is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 12:27
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's Hi Fly Malta which actually has the A380, but yes, they do have. (That's the "coral reef" livery.)

-w-
wigyori is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 18:01
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We are all one Thomas Cook. Yeah right....

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...rious-20175136
763 jock is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 18:12
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Here's a map of the repatriation flights:

Thomas Cook Repatriation Flights (24 September 2019) - Featured Map - Great Circle Mapper
Airbubba is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 18:28
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 763 jock
We are all one Thomas Cook. Yeah right....

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...rious-20175136
Minority (albeit 49%) owned by TC. Bloody right to celebrate that they haven't yet been dragged down by a major shareholder. Would it be better for anyone that had also failed?
kildress is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 20:03
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,822
Received 206 Likes on 94 Posts
Originally Posted by Airbubba
Nice graphic, though it omits some flights operated yesterday by Titan.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 22:30
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 24
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Nice graphic, though it omits some flights operated yesterday by Titan.
And also omits flights by Tui.
alfalpha is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 22:54
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Jet2 have also been operating some of the Titan flights today
Whitemonk Returns is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 00:00
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: signalbox
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
"Any airport owned or managed by any government department, the British Airports Authority (BAA) or a local authority and any airport designated for these purposes by the Secretary of State may under s.88 of the Civil Aviation Act 1982 detain any aircraft belonging to or operated by a person where that person has failed to pay airport charges. As with navigation charges, this is the case even if the charges relate to another aircraft owned or operated by that person. An aircraft may be detained for charges incurred in relation to it by a previous operator as the charges will follow the aircraft if not paid."
As TC has no money, and i assume that the airports are an unsecured creditor so pretty low down the list when it comes to allocating any available funds, will the leasing comanies have to pay what could be the last 3 months worth of charges ( assume they are on 90 days credit terms) for each a/c before they can re lease them ?
Signalman is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 05:24
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kildress
Minority (albeit 49%) owned by TC. Bloody right to celebrate that they haven't yet been dragged down by a major shareholder. Would it be better for anyone that had also failed?
According to their own profile Condor is 100% owned by the Thomas Cook GmbH, which is a 100% subsidiary of the Thomas Cook plc and itself in insolvency now. Condor however applies for a so called "Schutzschirm" (protective shield) which will insulate it against demands from TC or its administrators and part of german insolvency law.

If they will survive in the end is a different matter, but at least they have a chance to be sold off, either in parts or whole. Or just their slots which are their main assets after all.
Denti is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 05:28
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 307
Received 19 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by parabellum
I believe I am correct in saying that the administrator can agree to pay off outstanding airport charges, including landing fees, if there is insufficient capacity, in order to free up TC aircraft to be used for repatriation purposes.
I don't think that's the case at all. Not up with UK Administration Law but here in the colonies that would not be an option - and in any case it seems dubious the administrator would agree to continue trading. It's on them, and their insurers, to underwrite any further losses, which seem very likely, so, no, sorry.
Pearly White is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 05:57
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 167
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
".... any aircraft belonging to or operated by a person where that person has failed to pay airport charges. "
From a legal point of view, the person that failed to pay airport charges is not the owner/lessor of the aircraft; so, an airport cannot detain the aircraft not owned by TC. The airport should have detained the aircraft before the insolvency.

For the navigation charges, it is different because
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
".... An aircraft may be detained for charges incurred in relation to it by a previous operator as the charges will follow the aircraft if not paid. "



Bidule is online now  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 06:33
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,822
Received 206 Likes on 94 Posts
Originally Posted by Bidule
From a legal point of view, the person that failed to pay airport charges is not the owner/lessor of the aircraft; so, an airport cannot detain the aircraft not owned by TC.
IANAL, but the relevant legislation (Civil Aviation Act 1982, s.88) appears to explicitly give the airport that power:

(1) Where default is made in the payment of airport charges incurred in respect of any aircraft at an aerodrome to which this section applies, the aerodrome authority may, subject to the provisions of this section—

(a) detain, pending payment, either—

(i) the aircraft in respect of which the charges were incurred (whether or not they were incurred by the person who is the operator of the aircraft at the time when the detention begins); or

(ii) any other aircraft of which the person in default is the operator at the time when the detention begins; and
Why do you think LGW has reportedly positioned snowploughs behind every TCX parked aircraft ?
DaveReidUK is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.