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Ezy cancel flights due to crew shortage

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Ezy cancel flights due to crew shortage

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Old 13th Aug 2002, 03:20
  #101 (permalink)  

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flch10000, your quote:
"...fiddling with the FMC obviously oblivious of how to enter a STAR into the RTE page..."
and then your contradiction:
"...I do not fly for a living, and thus do not qualify myself in any particular way..."
are precisely why you are not qualified to make stupid observations.

The fact that you have done B737 type rating course at FSI means nothing, especially if you have absolutely no actual flying or line experience on the type. A liitle bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing and I am sure that the crew who extended the courtesy of allowing you on the jump seat regret it now because of your petty comments which have absolutely no place on here. Either you have line experience on the B737 and are VERY familiar with the FMC operation in actual, real life line operations or else you are just a petty person who fantasises you know everything and feel smug making unfounded allegations about a professional crew who DO have the real experience.

Yes, the others may be insulting you but I warned you that you would be flamed for making such stupid allegations without knowing much about what you are mentioning. In my eyes, and no doubt the rest of us who DO operate these a/c every day for a living, your comments are as infuriating as those of the lowest of the low journalists who make sensational stories out of aviation non-events in the tabloids. I will warn the others who are unable to provide anything more than insults to hold back as they are not needed here. Flch1000 can try and change the argument and bring in the Guvnor which only goes to prove why I had him removed from posting his Walter Mitty experiences on here. You either have the experience and speak from it or else you are a fantasist Walter Mitty type who is in dire need of friends and pretending you are something you are not is not acceptable on here.

So, please don't challenge me on my own board because for your information I am not only 'judge and jury'... I'm also the executioner!
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 07:28
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Where is this astonishing comment then? Has it been removed while I was asleep. I really would have liked to read it. All I can see is the ashes that's been left from some almighty flaming. Please let us read flch10000000000000's post.
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 09:13
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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I'm only a private pilot, I'm also only regular long-haul SLF so sorry if I am invading the "pro-forum" BUT:

With that attitude, I don't want to be on or near an aircraft flown by 126.9...ever!
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 09:19
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Make and example of him! Stone him and all his kin! Let there be BLOOD!

Dan!
Screw this B*****Ds hide to the wall beside that other fools' where it can be seen as an example to all and sundry of the ignorant masses who seem to populate these pages today.

I have been PPRuNing a long time and I can only say that I truly regret that these worthless fools are permitted any access to PPRuNe at all. I strongly urge the limitation of posting priveleges to only those who can prove their status as Professional Pilots... Let the wannabees and dweebs have their own forums or go elsewhere, but give us somewhere for us please Dan, a place to share our R&N in private. Let them stay behind their groundbound desks and spend their miserable groundbound lives wishing for a glimpse of the clouds and the sun the way we see them every day. It is through the uninformed and ignorant opinions of the likes of these that we find ourselves in our current industrial and professional straits. Let them know and regret that they will never ever comprehend even the tiniest part of what we do let alone achieve the standards required of us every minute of our working lives.

Hard line I may be, but also very tired of the denigration and dimuntion of one of last bastions of the true artisan. We are a select few and have proved our worth day in, day out in all weathers and climates all over the world. I abhor the state of our profession and it is only fools like these that make it so. Let us demand and receive the respect we deserve by dint of the long hard road each and every professional aviator takes to get where he/she is and the risks, duress and stress that is part of our daily lives as we perform the act of pilotage!

Brother Pilots let us reclaim what is ours.
We are different and apart and long may we remain so!

Rant filter off and soapbox stored safely away till next required.
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 09:41
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Rongotai,

I hear you; but you have missed my point.

I'm sure what you say has its place in the chain of events that leads to an upset.

No amount of pressure can make you( or should make you) fly.

I agree that you have to watch yourself VERY carefully and be you own judge and jury. On two occasions I have turned flights down due to fatigue and even one on prior familiy commitments.

At NO TIME did eJ pressure me or respond with anything other than acceptance-They HAVE to- which is my piont.

You are the final backstop to safety. If its not right then don't go.

I don't have any difficulty with this mindset and neither does eJ or many of the excellent girls/boys on line(inc. CC)

Like I said if you can do it and don't need your hand held and have broad shoulders-then come on in.

If you feel bad press-pay talks-moaning will distract you then.....

So enough of this if you are a pilot you should have more pride and respect for your vocation .
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 10:46
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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As Little Fiend says if you are prepared to work without complaint until you lose your medical then come on down to easyJet.

There will soon be vacancies.

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Old 13th Aug 2002, 20:29
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Flanker,

I didn't say that or imply it.

I'll try again and make it simple.

You don't have to crash, or lower your standards just 'cos the company is a mess.

My loyalty, to set this straight, is to me, my family, my licence and my profession.

Do you see eJ on that list?

Your all too active on the company site-check that.
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 20:57
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Easy Jet- Cancellations

What is going on in this outfit. A good friend checked in at BFS at 1900 hrs for the 2000 LTN flight. After a lot of misinformation it was finally admitted at midnight that they were cancelling the flight and blamed the Flt-Crew. No alternatives were offered and boy were the pax pissed off, especially the ones who had business meetings and holiday flights the next morning and were night stopping in LTN. The grd staff VANISHED v.quickly. Is this the start of more problems ? Is the greek selling his shares ?
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 21:32
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Grunt,

Could you be a bit more specific as to the date. On inquiring for you, I presumed from the time and date that you were refering to tonights flight, which in fact left BFS 5 minutes early, and arrived in LTN 25 minutes rearly. I then realised that you could not have been refering to tonight as you stated that passengers were kept hanging around till midnight, so I checked on yesterdays. There were problems then, the flight, the EZY 362, left BFS 50 minutes late and arrived in LTN 40 minutes late.

When are you refering too??
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 23:11
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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A fascinating discussion. Apart from the foolish comments of FLCH10000 and 126.9, both of whom have embarrassed themselves severely, there are actually some useful points being made here.

I am an A320 pilot with another operator who was made an offer by easyJet last year, which I turned down after much heart searching in favour of my present employer. As such I am actually quite well disposed towards easyJet despite the fact that they are now the opposition! I am still in regular contact with a number of friends who work for easyJet and feel reasonably qualified to be able to make comparisons between them and other airlines. There is no doubt in my mind that the training standards within easyJet are extremely high - as shown by the high failure rate they currently have. In complete contradiction to others on this thread who write them off as slack and unprofessional, I believe the exact opposite is true. They are so determined not to be considered second best that they seem to have acted harshly in a number of cases and failed people who should have made it. Their increasing reputation as a 'chopping airline' is totally counterproductive because I know for a fact that it is putting top quality people off applying. There is no shortage of young and keen lads/lasses wanting their first big break but there is a critical shortage of 'the right people' wanting to join. I would suggest that my current company, which is full of very experienced skippers and FOs who are dual rated on both 737s and A320s, are exactly who they need to attract. To my knowledge, not a single pilot has applied to them, and I know for certain that no one has joined them (a couple went to GO for geographic reasons). They simply have to address themselves to the issues of rostering, quality of life and 'fairness' of the training system which when taken together put the very people off they need to attract.

The next issue which has shocked me is this revelation that people who have had offers in the past will not be considered again in the future. Apart from the apparent vindictiveness of the situation, notwithstanding the comments of JL/Cruella, this policy brings into question the very validity of their whole selection process. If someone goes through the whole 9 yards and passes the selection procedure they are by definition exactly who easyJet want to employ. If by turning easyJet down for any number of reasonable and legitimate reasons they are subsequently black-balled from ever working for easyJet in the future, then easyJet must hold their hands up and say they simply got the wrong person for the job in the first place and that their selection system is totally inadequate. Clearly that is not the case, and this very ill-considered policy must be seen as arrogant and vindictive.

That leads me back to my original assertion that the very people who easyJet need to attract are not going to darken their door. Rather than easyJet behaving in this childish manner, they should rather seek to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the people who turned them down the first time. As anecdotal evidence, I know of someone who had thought of going along to the easyJet roadshow/presentation at Heathrow in the next few weeks, but having read this thread will not now be attending. I would suggest that is easyJet's loss and that their policy is backfiring badly. Do they want the best calibre of 737/A320 pilots to apply? Well if the pilots who turned up first time were good enough, why do they not swallow their pride and try and woo them back a second time?

My own experience of the easyJet recruitment system was essentially negative in that they constantly forgot to write to me and tell me what was happening and after both the selection day and the sim ride I had to phone up and badger them weeks later to find out if I was through. Although they eventually came up with a job offer I had by then (only because of their 2 months of delays) been offered a job flying Airbuses which I took instead. Like everyone else in aviation, I took the best job offer I had at the time and it was in no way a reflection of easyJet. The frank truth is that if every single one of us had got that 'dream airline job' at the right time in our lives we would probably not be working for who we are at the moment! I personally am delighted with my current employer, but that does not mean that I would have not made a real go at being the best easyJet pilot I possibly could if I had joined them.

So come on easyJet - get real and do not let your own pride and puffed up sense of importance prevent you from gaining some of the very pilots you actually want. If you wanted them first time round, then unless they have sprouted a second head you must surely see some value in them the second time!
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 23:22
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Little Friend,

I fully agree with what you say in your second post - except that it is a counsel of perfection. It is the way things OUGHT to be. But it does not represent how everybody behaves all the time. Hence the increased frequency of human factors critical incidents in companies that are an organisational mess.

There is a further risk that may apply even to you in some circumstances. If you and/or those around you are under stress, then there is an increased likelihood that there will be attentional lapses. Most of these will be minor, and most of them will be committed by people who are not on board the aircraft when it takes off. But the cumulative effect of disruptions due to attentional lapses can negatively affect the performance of even the most dedicated flight crew. One only has to read the angry, dismissive or sarcastic tone of some of the flight crew who post on pprune to realise that all around you there are pilots with stress management problems.

I have absolutely no knowledge of whether any of this applies to EZY. My (limited) experience of EZY as a passenger has been perfectly satisfactory. But the time around a merger is always problematic (the Staines Trident, Erebus, the Dryden F28, Crossair recently,etc.). Actually, without having any inside knowledge, I am quite encouraged by EZY management's open acknowledgement of growth related HR problems. At least that suggests they are not in denial like so many aorund at the moment.
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Old 13th Aug 2002, 23:26
  #112 (permalink)  
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Very well put, Norman Stanley Fletcher. "Arrogant" and "vindictive" describe the situation very well.

Cruella/JL claim that she/they will look at individual cases... I doubt it, they don't reply to emails unless they need an answer, phoning is a waste of time and you just know that anything sent on old-fashioned paper will be ignored.

As you say, having selected the right person for the job, the intelligent HR person will continue to woo the person concerned, or at least leave the door open for acceptance at a later date. Employing the right people is their raison d'etre , and every person they reject for not accepting their first (and, it seems, only) offer represents a significant loss to the company financially.

The policy will no doubt change when they start having trouble finding crews, as it has before.
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Old 14th Aug 2002, 07:35
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Hi krisscross, the flight from bfs was last sunday night, 11 aug. EJ are saying the flt crew were out of hours and thus cancelled. This was the last straw for my friend and has sworn never to darken door 1L again, will now be flying BMI. Interested to hear the other side of the story.
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Old 14th Aug 2002, 08:00
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Little Friend

If you look at what happens to the easy pilots you'll find that many of them have gone part time after a very few years, even then they are working as hard or harder than many companies full time pilots. Also it is very clear that you can tire people out way below the max legal limits by poor rostering, and boy do we have poor rostering.

The point I am trying to make is that it is not reasonable to expect this from your workforce, and as you know its not just the pilots - its everybody! I have never heard of a company where so many drop by the wayside one way or another, how many managers have taken extended leave for stress?

If you believe you can separate your professional operation from the above environment for very long I think you are mistaken. Earlier on in this thread you stated that you would be the one with the 'bags under his eyes' - that in itself implies a flight safety hazard! I too try to keep it light hearted on the line but its simply not possible at times, which is why its such a serious problem.

You suggested I check out the company forum, well that is one place where at least one of your own posts highlights a stress management problem at least as bad as mine, I try to refrain from using the f word. By the way I completely agree with that particular post and I have no problem with a bit of passion, at the end of the day its the people who care that change things for the better.

If you are truly able to operate to your highest standards in the current mayhem then I must assume you haven't been here very long. Either that or you are ex - SAS in which case I retract without prejudice any statements made by myself or any member of my family which you may have found in the least bit offensive!

To those who say well done to easy for coming out and admitting the error of their ways - its a bit hard not to when the embarrassing facts are all over the national press!
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Old 14th Aug 2002, 09:44
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Grunt

I heard a rumour from the Emerald Isle that the crew had calculated their hours incorrectly and were not actually out of hours but just thought they were,ooops.
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Old 14th Aug 2002, 15:19
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Firstly Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have said everything that needs to be said on this thread - spot on. How do you keep your composure while writing?

Anyway, the real reason that eJ have failed is this.

Fact 1. They are short of crew.

Fact 2. I WAS available in Dec-Feb (7000 total, 4000hrs 737 EFIS in command, no bad name in the industry, no accidents, incidents, virtually unknown worldwide!)

Fact 3. Never got invited to an interview, not even now. (Happily employed elsewhere! and received the email about the silly roadshow, don't expect me though!)

Fact 4. easyJet are sinking because they are too proud and very very stupid in letting down the very people that make it, or would have made it tick.

Joyce and the rest - stuff your precious job!

Last edited by Mike-Hunt; 14th Aug 2002 at 15:23.
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Old 14th Aug 2002, 19:04
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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easy cancel next weeks flghts

From EMA today, a certain charter airline flying A300 have been asked by easy about flying for them next week as our orange friends have already earmarked flights to be cancelled and do not yet know whether there is anyone left they can sub the flights out too.
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Old 15th Aug 2002, 10:17
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Flanker,

Fair play I full agree with you.

I think that, as with many threads, is heading off in the wrong direction.

My initial post (on this thread) was as a result of some comment that we(eJ and LCC) had become unsafe.

Without repeating myself my point was that I TRY to not let the current situation change my approach to the job once the doors are shut. I'm sure your the same; as are most of us.

I was just deffending all the poor sods at eJ. Life is hard and a skippers job has become a little harder as a result of it. We need a sacking and to start again in certain departments-GO could sort this if we let them.

I'm not suggesting that I'm immune to mistakes( look at my spelling) or that I have set my self above anyone-I just try to do it correctly no matter what.

I do care that we'er in the crap and no its not acceptable, and I'm fed up that the eJ top 40 have put us in the situation AGAIN.

To sum up I believe that we have more control over our mood and how we go to work than some would suggest.
My loyalty is to myself and my wife and kids.
Eventually the job situation will change and eJ may well face its biggest challenge yet-that being the likes of you and me and all the other top people that fly the line moving on.

Best wishes and good luck LF
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Old 15th Aug 2002, 18:52
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Can anyone point us in the right direction as to find out what flights are likely to be cancelled on any one day.
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Old 16th Aug 2002, 13:50
  #120 (permalink)  
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The Times - 16 Aug:

EasyJet cancels flights
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

EASYJET cancelled flights booked by 10,000 passengers last night after admitting that it had expanded too quickly to offer a reliable service.

The cancelled flights are the first casualties of the Luton-based budget airline’s £374 million takeover of Go, its Stansted-based former rival. EasyJet is permanently removing all Go flights from Belfast to Glasgow and Edinburgh from next Tuesday. It is contacting 9,882 passengers with Go tickets to offer them alternative easyJet flights where available.

The announcement came after easyJet told its pilots, in letters obtained by The Times, that it was struggling with “severe disruption”.

The cancellation of the Belfast flights raises doubts about other services on which easyJet and Go compete for customers, including London to Barcelona, Málaga, Nice and Palma.

A spokesman said there were no plans for any further changes. EasyJet and Go have separate but overlapping catchment areas.
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