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Convair 440 crash on approach to Toledo-Express airport

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Convair 440 crash on approach to Toledo-Express airport

Old 11th Sep 2019, 13:56
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Convair 440 crash on approach to Toledo-Express airport

https://aviation-safety.net/database...?id=20190911-0
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 14:29
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Nothing unusual on the 0630Z LiveATC.net tape. These old freighters are not required to have a CVR or FDR are they?
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 14:41
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The video on Fox News showed a fierce fire, and if they crashed on approach it doesn't look good for the crew.

Update: They say the crew died

https://www.foxnews.com/us/cargo-pla...lames-aircraft
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 14:56
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Joe Rotterdam of the Lucas County Port Authority erroneously identified the plane as a CV-340 and reporter McKenzie Kuehnlein called the plane a Conveyor in an interview on the 6 am local news.

Unfortunately the crew is now confirmed dead:

Two killed when cargo plane crashes near Toledo Express Airport

By Jeff Smith | Posted: Wed 3:49 AM, Sep 11, 2019 | Updated: Wed 8:29 AM, Sep 11, 2019

SWANTON, Ohio (WTVG) - The Toledo Lucas County Port Authority has confirmed that two people were killed when a cargo plane crashed just outside of the Toledo Express Airport early Wednesday morning.
According to crews on the scene, that plane was a conveyor [sic] cargo plane flying from Millington, Tennessee which crashed on top of two semis at Bubba's [no known relation - Airbubba] Auto and Deisel [sic] near the airport around 3 AM Wednesday morning.

Police on the scene say the plane was fully engulfed when they arrived on the scene this morning. Port Authority officials say that fire is now extinguished. Police and fire crews from multiple departments arrived on scene to assist.


https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Cargo-plane-crashes-near-Toledo-Express-Airport-560011491.html
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 15:01
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First of all may the crew rest in peace and condolences to all involved.
Does anyone knows if this was a commercial cargo flight, a private one, which far/part, or the name of the operator doing the flight/exploring this CV last days?
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 15:09
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight View Post
First of all may the crew rest in peace and condolences to all involved.
Does anyone knows if this was a commercial cargo flight, a private one, which far/part, or the name of the operator doing the flight/exploring this CV last days?

I believe this was a cargo charter, probably a FAR Part 125 operation used to move auto components to various assembly plants located throughout that region. These kinds of operaions have been around for at least 40+ years now.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 15:44
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I'm still amazed that there is an economic case for commercial flights in the US with such an outdated aircraft. It really boggles the mind that there is apparently no modern equivalent on the market (and yes I understand that it might not be relevant at all to this specific accident).
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 17:12
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This is how close they were to the runway


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Old 11th Sep 2019, 19:10
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Anyone with the visibility and cloud base was at the time?
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 19:58
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I work in the car parts air transport business myself, and have frequently seen this aircraft in Laredo. Cargo flying lends itself to older airplanes because new ones are so expensive. Unless your profit margin compares to Fedex, it’s awfully hard to pay those prices. Flying car parts has a very high profit per trip, but it’s all unscheduled, with no guarantees of a steady cash flow. You don’t want an expensive asset sitting around doing nothing half the time. In the case of the Convair, I would guess it was just the owners hobby, rather than a serious business.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 20:44
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Originally Posted by BRUpax View Post
Anyone with the visibility and cloud base was at the time?
From ASN
METAR Weather report:
05:52 UTC / 01:52 local time:
KTOL 110552Z 23005KT 10SM CLR 25/19 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP194 T02500194 10272 20250 51007
06:52 UTC / 02:52 local time:
KTOL 110652Z 23004KT 10SM CLR 24/19 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP196 T02440194

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Old 11th Sep 2019, 21:38
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From the Ohio State Patrol Facebook page:

OSHP investigating deadly cargo plane crash in Lucas County - Victims have been identified

The Ohio State Highway Patrol is investigating a cargo plane crash in Springfield Township in Lucas County. The plane had two people on board at the time of the crash and both were pronounced deceased at the scene. No other injuries on the ground have been reported.

At 2:44 a.m., the Patrol was notified of vehicles on fire near Interstate 80, in close proximity to Toledo Express Airport. Troopers from the Toledo Post arrived on scene and reported a plane crashed near 10101 Garden Road, the site of a trucking business.
The plane, a Convair CV-440, was owned by Barker Aeromotive, Inc., and was loaded with automotive parts. Troopers worked with law enforcement officials in Texas notify next of kin. Crew members were identified as Douglas R. Taylor [the aircraft appears to be registered in his name - Airbubba], 72, and Donald C. Peterson Sr., 69, both of Laredo, Texas.

The National Transportation Safety Board has been notified and will be on scene later this afternoon.

The Ohio National Guard Fire Unit; Toledo Fire and Rescue Department; Springfield Township, Monclova Township, and Whitehouse fire departments; Lucas County Sheriff’s Office; Ohio Environmental Protection Agency; Federal Aviation Administration; and the American Red Cross are assisting on scene.




Note the radioactive hazmat sign on the trailer in the first picture below.






Last edited by Airbubba; 11th Sep 2019 at 21:56.
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Old 11th Sep 2019, 21:45
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Taylor's pilot licenses:




Peterson's pilot licenses:


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Old 12th Sep 2019, 00:31
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Paper or Plastic?

Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Taylor's pilot licenses:




Peterson's pilot licenses:


A note on FAA licenses: -the 'Date of Issue" is really the date the physical license card was produced. Something as simple s a change of address will update the date of issue..
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 02:31
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Originally Posted by neilki View Post
A note on FAA licenses: -the 'Date of Issue" is really the date the physical license card was produced. Something as simple s a change of address will update the date of issue..
The widow of one of the pilots said that he had flown for nearly 50 years.

From the Toledo Blade:

A freight pilot who had nearly 50 years of flying experience was one of two men who died after their cargo aircraft crashed less than a mile from Toledo Express Airport.

The nighttime incident, which is still being investigated, happened early Wednesday and caused a fiery impact after the twin-engine went down in the parking lot of a repair shop.

Ohio State Highway Patrol investigators identified the two on board as Douglas R. Taylor, 72, and Donald C. Peterson, Sr., 69, both of Laredo, Texas.

It was the type of flight the two had taken many times — flying auto parts from Laredo to cities that manufacture vehicles, said Kathy Peterson, who was married to Donald Peterson for 25 years. Her husband flew across the country from Texas to Alaska to Ohio, she said.
“I knew something happened around 3 o’clock this morning because the airport tracks all their flights and they called me and said something happened because the airports keep in touch with each other. The longer it went on, I started watching the news and I saw what had happened,” Mrs. Peterson said. “I don’t know why it happened, but it happened. We have to wait for the investigators to do that.”

There were no other injuries reported on the ground.

The 62-year-old cargo aircraft, a twin-engine Convair 440, was approaching the airport at about 2:37 a.m. when it crashed in the parking lot of Bubba’s Diesel and Auto Repair, an auto business near Garden and Eber roads in Monclova Township, officials said. The aircraft’s flight originated at 6:36 p.m. Tuesday in Laredo, Texas. It later stopped in Millington, Tenn. — outside of Memphis — before departing at 11:14 p.m. Tuesday from the Millington Regional Jetport and heading for Toledo, according to flight records.

“It’s really horrible. It still feels like he’s going to come home,” said Ms. Peterson, who was preparing to celebrate her 25th wedding anniversary next week. “He was a great pilot and a great guy, and I loved him very much.”



https://www.toledoblade.com/local/po...es/20190911118
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 02:31
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
Nothing unusual on the 0630Z LiveATC.net tape. These old freighters are not required to have a CVR or FDR are they?
Under 121 or 125 they would have to have a basic 11 channel FDR. There is no requirement for a CVR. Given the ambient background noise a CVR wouldn’t pick up much that’s not on the ATC tapes.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 02:38
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Interesting that both of them have, besides the recip Convair type, DC-3 types, CW-46 types and YS-11 types. Guessing they had worked together for many years.

Thinking back on it Barker Aeromotive was who we dealt with 35 years ago in LRD three jobs ago running car parts in -3s and Convairs.

Last edited by MarkerInbound; 12th Sep 2019 at 02:48.
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 05:17
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Originally Posted by Caboclo View Post
I work in the car parts air transport business myself, and have frequently seen this aircraft in Laredo. Cargo flying lends itself to older airplanes because new ones are so expensive. Unless your profit margin compares to Fedex, it’s awfully hard to pay those prices. Flying car parts has a very high profit per trip, but it’s all unscheduled, with no guarantees of a steady cash flow. You don’t want an expensive asset sitting around doing nothing half the time. In the case of the Convair, I would guess it was just the owners hobby, rather than a serious business.

its a very serious and lucrative business
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 05:28
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Condolences to all concerned.
Is it normal in the US to have pilots over 65 to fly commercially together?
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Old 12th Sep 2019, 08:44
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Originally Posted by ironbutt57 View Post
its a very serious and lucrative business
When I cut my teeth in that game in the mid seventies it was lucrative only if you ignored the downtime. The fixed expenses keep accumulating, waiting for the next call from a panicked auto cargo coordinator. Back then you could make a ton of money quickly, and then lose it just as fast when things tapered off. We used to hope for rail strikes, interstate closures and snowstorms.

Happy to no longer fly anything with a DC, L or CV prefix. Or for that matter fly anything in Great Lakes wx systems.
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