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JFK Thunderstorms

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JFK Thunderstorms

Old 29th Jul 2019, 23:37
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Let us not forget the L1011 tradgety at Dallas/Fortworth .

No two Thunder cells the same. Do not, i repeat do not underestimate the power within and in the proximity.

Better and more experienced pilots than most of us have been caught out. As the OP quite rightly suggests, why run the risk? Think of your passengers and crew, as we owe them that much at least.

We humans may think we have aviation "kicked to death". But we haven't and we never will

Last edited by Dan_Brown; 30th Jul 2019 at 08:20.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 03:29
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tomaski View Post
I've had PWS go off because it was sensing the thrust of an aircraft in front of me (no weather in the area). Probably depends on the radar unit.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought PWS works on the principle of measuring velocity of droplets, not changes in airflow?
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 04:56
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kibz2005 View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought PWS works on the principle of measuring velocity of droplets, not changes in airflow?
It does but is also known to be imperfect and why it may be permissible for a crew to disregard it in certain circumstances.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 06:03
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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From a well known manufacturer's FCOM:

The “W/S AHEAD” message is displayed on each PFD. The color of the message depends on the severity and location of the windshear.

Note:When a predictive windshear alert (“WINDSHEAR AHEAD” or “GO AROUND WINDSHEAR AHEAD”) is triggered, the flight crew must carefully check that there is no hazard. If this is the case, the flight crew can disregard the alert, as long as both of the following apply:
‐ There are no other signs of possible windshear conditions
‐ The reactive windshear system is operational.

Known cases of spurious predictive windshear alerts were reported at some airports, either during takeoff or landing, due to the specific obstacle environment.

However, always rely on any reactive windshear (“WINDSHEAR”).












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Old 30th Jul 2019, 06:11
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Known cases of spurious predictive windshear alerts were reported at some airports, either during takeoff or landing, due to the specific obstacle environment.
A rogue airport in my network produced occasional "GA WS Ahead" callouts in gin clear weather and not a hill in sight. Gets your attention at 300ft on Final!
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 08:39
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Why are you guys citing accidents from way back when WS was not so easily detected nor trained for?

The Delta accident was in 1979 (and on landing).

There were several contributing factors such as the lack of adequate equipment on the airport and on board the aircraft to detect the possibility of WS. The NTSB also determined that a lack of specific training, policies, and procedures for avoiding and escaping low-altitude wind shear was a contributing factor.

The point I'm making is that a great deal has evolved since then. For that reason I remain unconvinced that neither Delta nor KLM took any "risks".
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 08:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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HT, you're correct, a great deal has evolved since then. But TS's are the same, and a strong microburst can still put an airliner down.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 09:24
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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TR, I don't disbelieve that for a moment. Not at all. I also don't for a moment believe that the Delta and KLM crews took any unnecessary risks at the exact time they departed. It's pure supposition by the OP. Finally, if the OP just wished to make a general point, why name one operator? Agenda?
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 13:12
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Discussing this few days ago.The imaginative mind can see problems that do not exist,but on the converse,a lack of imagination in our industry can bring on its own problems..

Jim_A puts it well,in the following post!

Last edited by Yaw String; 3rd Aug 2019 at 23:37.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 18:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
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One of the inherent problems with this type of scenario is that it probably happens more often than we would like to admit, and having no unpleasant consequence the crews learn the wrong lesson. The phrase "normalization of deviance" comes to mind. Then something bad happens and everyone starts taking the radar returns serious again.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 13:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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These things can still happen. Thankfully this time nothing serious happened.

​​​​​​Respect Convective Weather!
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