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German pilot killed in Polish air show

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German pilot killed in Polish air show

Old 16th Jun 2019, 13:51
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German pilot killed in Polish air show

German pilot killed in Polish air show
RIP



Polish air shows victims
- 2011, one pilot
- 2009, two pilots
- 2007, two pilots

Video:
Holy crap, 4 or 5 people only a few meters away....

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 17th Jun 2019 at 06:43. Reason: Add video
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 14:18
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Looks like a perfectly normal spin from which he actually recovered but far too late.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 14:47
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Strange that the rudder does not appear to be hard right for recovery? Pilot incapacitation? There seemed to be plenty of time to recover from the spin.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 15:27
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Not a normal spin, more of a spiral dive. Recovery did not start until he got the nose down.
It is very difficult to recover from the flat attitude, the golden rule applies - Nose Down, Full Opposite Rudder.
I would not expect an experienced show pilot to make such a mistake, it certainly looks like some form of incapacitation or maybe a control jam.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 15:33
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Um make your mind up, one minute its a spiral dive then its a flat attitude, you cant be in both at the same time.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 16:09
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Looks like a perfectly normal spin from which he actually recovered but far too late.
Tbh, I don't see any signs of recovery. The problem is that we don't see what preceded what we see in the clip.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 16:10
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It's appears ailerons were full deployed?
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 16:52
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Rotation stops but no visible attempt to pull out of the dive.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 17:58
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Initial informations state there was a engine cut out during that spin.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 17:59
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Originally Posted by Channel6 View Post
It's appears ailerons were full deployed?
Yep! One deployed on each wing....
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 18:18
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Had a look at the video.
It seems a some moment in the spin, the ailerons were in the "left roll" position, which tends to aggravate/flatten a right spin.
Also at low altitude, the rotation rate seems to slow down, then he starts a secondary left spin down to impact.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 18:23
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At 0:21 in the video, he seems to be flying again, but too late to avoid the water.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 19:43
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As pointed out in Post #4, I was taught in primary flight training to use opposite rudder and some nose down elevator to recover from a spin and to leave the ailerons alone. It appeared from the video that large aileron deflections, in the direction of the turn, were used, including large "up" elevator (ANU) deflections. This seems just the opposite of what I was taught. I would think that an airshow pilot would know these things, so that raises the question of incapacitation or disorientation. We'll probably never know. Anyway, this pilot apparently loved to fly ... R.I.P.

Cheers,
Grog
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:21
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This Looks like a Flatspin in Power Off Mode to me.

the Controls are a Mix between Pro Spin and Antispin.

The 52 will flatten out with Outspin Aileron immediatly. To perform the Ultimate Flatspin you would then add Power and go Stick fwd.

The Recovery from an Intenional Flatspin ( Power on - Outspin Aileron - Stick Forward - Rudder Inspin (( The Russians call it Superspin)) ) :

Power OFF
Rudder Opposite
Aileron Inspin
Stick full back (Otherwise Airflow over the Rudder is Blocked in a Flatspin)

After 2-3 Revolutions without reaction the Aircraft will bank in the Spin and enter a Normal Spin/Skidding Spiral Dive ( You can hear the Airflow reattach and the ASI will Speed up like crazy)

Then, Aileron Neutral - Stick Forward - Rudder Neutral when Rotation Stops and Recover.

So, everybody seeing Flatspin-Spin-Spiraldive is quite correct, but the Recovery Procedure hasnt been followed in this case. It Looks like the Attempts from Untrained (On YK52) Pilots.
The Pilot was a PPL that owned this AC for over 10yrs.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:28
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@ Capngrog:

This recovery is Standard in a lot of Countrys, especially in the english speaking World.

Aileron is left in Neutral to prevent Novices from unpleasant Adventures.
Actually Inspin Aileron will give higher Rotation and more Nose down. It also Speeds up recovery. Often used in Competition Precision Spins, to stop on the Point.
Outspin Aileron will usually develop technically a Flatspin, whith a slightly Nose Low Attitude.

Spinning Inverted the Aileron Inputs will have Opposite Effects......
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:34
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The rudder didn't appear to be applied in the anti-spin direction, it was neutral or if anything there was a small amount of pro-spin applied all the way down.

But a lot of "outspin" aileron did appear to be applied...a very unusual way to try to recover and obviously totally unsuccessful.
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:43
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And not one of the people on the bank dived in to see if they could help ??
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Old 16th Jun 2019, 20:54
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
And not one of the people on the bank dived in to see if they could help ??
It's not hard to think of at least half a dozen reasons why they might have thought that wasn't a great idea.

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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:26
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Originally Posted by capngrog View Post
As pointed out in Post #4, I was taught in primary flight training to use opposite rudder and some nose down elevator to recover from a spin and to leave the ailerons alone. It appeared from the video that large aileron deflections, in the direction of the turn, were used, including large "up" elevator (ANU) deflections. This seems just the opposite of what I was taught. I would think that an airshow pilot would know these things, so that raises the question of incapacitation or disorientation.
Grog,
The rudder is the primary control to stop a spin, and the elevator position must be so that most of the rudder area is subject to the slipstream.
The elevator nose up or nose down to recover from a spin depends on the configuration of the tail. Some aircraft (most Pitts for instance) require full nose up elevator to quickly stop spinning.

Concerning ailerons, it has been established that ailerons opposite to the spin tend to aggravate/flatten the spin.
If one looks carefully at the video stills, one can notice that the ailerons are in the left roll position, while the airplane is spinning to the right, so this is a case of ailerons aggravating the spin.

In this particular case, the up elevator and left aileron in a right spin are compatible with the instinctive action of a panicky or disoriented pilot.
Like any experienced pilots, display pilots do make mistakes.
Only inexperienced pilots don't think so.


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Old 16th Jun 2019, 21:59
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And not one of the people on the bank dived in to see if they could help ??
Initially I thought the same, but then it occurred to me that the water was flowing pretty fast with perhaps some treacherous currents. A hero could have become another victim!
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