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Don’t make a wrong turn in PEK!

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Don’t make a wrong turn in PEK!

Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:20
  #1 (permalink)  
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Don’t make a wrong turn in PEK!

The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:

. Category of Taxiing Deviations and Corresponding Measures (I) Category I – (Runway incursion)
1. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway and disturbs other flights’ landing and taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of twelve (12) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.
2. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway but does not disturb other flights’ landing or taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of eight (8) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.

(II) Category II - (Occupying a taxiway but not affecting runway operation)
1. Airlines whose aircraft enter into an incorrect taxiway and leads to a head-on encounter with another aircraft will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row.
2. Airlines whose large-size aircraft enters a lower-grade taxiway without authorization will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row
3. Airlines whose aircraft enters an incorrect taxiway and results in a temporary traffic control or taxiing avoidance (according to the record made by air traffic controller) will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of four (4) weeks in a row
(III) Category III – (Taking a wrong turn or taxiing past the designated position)
For aircrafts taking a wrong turn while taxiing or taxiing past the designated position, based on the actual situation, aircrafts operating the involved flight (by Flight number) will be required to park in remote stands for three (3) weeks in a row.
ManaAdaSystem is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:27
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Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem View Post
The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:

. Category of Taxiing Deviations and Corresponding Measures (I) Category I – (Runway incursion)
1. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway and disturbs other flights’ landing and taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of twelve (12) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.
2. Airlines whose aircraft taxies into an incorrect runway but does not disturb other flights’ landing or taking off will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of eight (8) weeks in a row. The incidents will be reported to CAAC North China Regional Administration for taking penalty measures.

(II) Category II - (Occupying a taxiway but not affecting runway operation)
1. Airlines whose aircraft enter into an incorrect taxiway and leads to a head-on encounter with another aircraft will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row.
2. Airlines whose large-size aircraft enters a lower-grade taxiway without authorization will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of six (6) weeks in a row
3. Airlines whose aircraft enters an incorrect taxiway and results in a temporary traffic control or taxiing avoidance (according to the record made by air traffic controller) will be required to park their aircrafts in remote stands for a minimum of four (4) weeks in a row
(III) Category III – (Taking a wrong turn or taxiing past the designated position)
For aircrafts taking a wrong turn while taxiing or taxiing past the designated position, based on the actual situation, aircrafts operating the involved flight (by Flight number) will be required to park in remote stands for three (3) weeks in a row.
What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:45
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Originally Posted by FrequentSLF View Post
What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.
This guy's having a laugh right???
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:59
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I hope I'm reading this correctly ... the penalty is having to use remote lands instead of airbridges, as opposed to actually being parked up [grounded].
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 08:03
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Last time I was there was told by tower to expedite the runway, which I did. Taking the hi-speed at 40 knots we were handed to ground once well clear who told us to make a 135 degree turn onto a taxiway that went rapidly past us.

BOOM! Category 3 violation.

Next time I will slow down and let the tower abuse me for failing to expedite quick enough, no violation for that I can see.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 08:54
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Originally Posted by KABOY View Post
Next time I will slow down and let the tower abuse me for failing to expedite quick enough, no violation for that I can see.
Correct. Part of the line-training, and to show you are familiar enough to fly unsupervised, is learning how and which ATC instructions to "partially comply with".
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 09:38
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Chinese aviation is run by imbeciles and you know that from the minute you arrive to do the medical.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 11:43
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China Airlines is screwed then. Even after a precise detailed taxi briefing, they still get it wrong on a regular basis.
Getting harder and harder to keep blaming Expats when we aren't even the flight deck.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 12:21
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I wonder what the penalty would be for driving your aircraft into a building.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 13:01
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[QUOTE=ManaAdaSystem;10487566][left]The Chinese like to dish out penalties to their pilots for making errors, but they now have taken this penalty system to a whole new level:
​​​​​​
Can you share the source of that statement? Any documentation to review?
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 13:55
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This must be a joke. I can imagine that on a daily basis there are probably no less than 10 episodes of wrong taxi way turns. The remote stands are going to fill up in a week.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 14:17
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Originally Posted by FrequentSLF View Post
What is the issue with that? If I park, go on the wrong way, do not yeild i get a summon...with my car. Honestly i do not see any issue with the Chinese rules, unless ypu think are too severe... but seems that they are addressing safety concerns, maybe the last one is a bit over the board.
I´ve been to China only twice. 2 very different experiences, first time everything ATC wise went absolutely fine. Second time after landing we were "vectored" around the airport by ground control in barely audible/understandable english and the gentleman giving the instructions had our position plus were we should go mixed up. Add to this, night, rain and the fact that my aircraft has no wipers and you´ll find it sometimes hard to maneuver correctly. Also a lot of lighting of airports is simply blinding, at least for my relatively small and low sitting aircraft. And some of the stuff happens real quick and add to this that I think you won´t be able to appeal a decision by a Chines Authority, I think this would made me very uncomfortable should I have to fly to China again.
Punishment does little, understanding why and how mistakes happen is the way, way better approach. Some airports aren't really clearly or consistent labelled too. Remember Linate (CJ2 vs.MD80) ? I was there a few weeks after the catastrophe and some rwy ahead signs were still grown over by long grass. I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then ? BTW, I have never witnessed a pilot taxi wrong intentionally. Have you ?
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 15:28
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Punishment for errors has its root in ancient Chinese tradition and serves to uphold the corrupt system of leadership where superiors can never be held to blame. It's not that they don't understand that punishment should only be for deliberate acts and not human errors. They understand that quite well. Instead, the system chooses to focus on legislating for and enforcing punishment because by doing so allows them to avoid root cause analysis and takes eyes off them. Often, the root cause is incompetent people barely qualified for their jobs at the top of the chain. Unfortunately, these are the most politically connected in Chinese society.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 15:34
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Originally Posted by RudderTrimZero View Post
Punishment for errors has its root in ancient Chinese tradition and it serves to uphold the corrupt system of leadership where superiors can never be held to blame. They just don't understand that punishment is only for deliberate acts and not human errors. The concept is simply not there. Instead, the system chooses to focus on legislating and enforcing punishment because by doing so allows them to avoid root cause analysis. Often, the root cause is incompetent people barely qualified for their jobs. Unfortunately, these are the most politically connected in Chinese society.
That's true throughout Asia - a culture of Impunity and Zero Accountability!
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 16:42
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Chinese ATC is a joke. Flying regularly into PVG and the incompetence is stunning. LHR controllers would get 10 times the aircraft movement on that airport. They build more and more runways and terminals but as long as ATC can't handle more than one aircraft at the time it won't help.

I'm sure most mistakes during taxi is due to bad instructions in bad English from the controllers but they choose to blame the pilots. Not having to fly to China might be the thing that triggers my early retirement.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 17:05
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What happens when the back forty's full and all the gates are empty?
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 17:38
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Originally Posted by BlankBox View Post
What happens when the back forty's full and all the gates are empty?
Then they will "force" you to use the gates of course.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 20:41
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Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then?
Ok then let’s add a rule that the lawn mowers have to park at remote stands too.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 22:09
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Danger

Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
I´ve been to China only twice. 2 very different experiences, first time everything ATC wise went absolutely fine. Second time after landing we were "vectored" around the airport by ground control in barely audible/understandable english and the gentleman giving the instructions had our position plus were we should go mixed up. Add to this, night, rain and the fact that my aircraft has no wipers and you´ll find it sometimes hard to maneuver correctly. Also a lot of lighting of airports is simply blinding, at least for my relatively small and low sitting aircraft. And some of the stuff happens real quick and add to this that I think you won´t be able to appeal a decision by a Chines Authority, I think this would made me very uncomfortable should I have to fly to China again.
Punishment does little, understanding why and how mistakes happen is the way, way better approach. Some airports aren't really clearly or consistent labelled too. Remember Linate (CJ2 vs.MD80) ? I was there a few weeks after the catastrophe and some rwy ahead signs were still grown over by long grass. I told the tower and the authorities and 2 weeks later it was even worse (aka no grass cutting had been done) How should the reaction be on that then ? BTW, I have never witnessed a pilot taxi wrong intentionally. Have you ?
Aha! The dreaded Chinglish.......
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Old 7th Jun 2019, 00:37
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So just punish the Chinese airlines whenever they get taxi instructions wrong anywhere else in the world and park them at remote bays. Of course all this will be reported to CAAC as well.
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