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MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures

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MAX’s Return Delayed by FAA Reevaluation of 737 Safety Procedures

Old 10th Dec 2019, 23:31
  #4381 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Water pilot View Post
I do think local media would have noticed that many fights around Renton. I'm pretty sure I saw one flight test and it was quite distinctive, no way of mistaking it for a regular flight. (It is quite impressive to see a commercial airliner pretending that it is a YAK-3 at an airshow, must have been fun for the pilots!)
I would have expected folks around here who monitor FR24 to notice and let us know. Maybe someone will be motivated to take a look back . . .
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Old 10th Dec 2019, 23:33
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Originally Posted by Water pilot View Post
I do think local media would have noticed that many fights around Renton. I'm pretty sure I saw one flight test and it was quite distinctive, no way of mistaking it for a regular flight. (It is quite impressive to see a commercial airliner pretending that it is a YAK-3 at an airshow, must have been fun for the pilots!)
The test flights are out of KBFI or KPAE. They either head out over the Pacific about 50 miles off the coast or else to an area just west of Moses Lake. They use the call sign Boeing 1, and on flightaware.com as BOE1.
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Old 10th Dec 2019, 23:56
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And it is really taking Boeing a long time to fix the problem, or problems.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 00:18
  #4384 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The Range View Post
And it is really taking Boeing a long time to fix the problem, or problems.
Hey, if it were up to Boeing, the MAX would have been back in the air by April.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 00:22
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By all reports, Boeing thinks the problems are fixed. Hence the absence of recent test flights. The trick now is to get most if not all regulators aboard and in agreement with the proposed fixes.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 01:44
  #4386 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Winemaker View Post
Well, they could use more than one aircraft. They certainly have plenty of them sitting around.
Nope,
Only the original aircraft is used for test such as flutter and wind up turns. Customer aircraft are not used for purposes of testing new equipment, requirements etc.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 01:49
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Originally Posted by Winemaker View Post
Well, they could use more than one aircraft. They certainly have plenty of them sitting around.
Glad you brought that up as I was looking at the quoted hours. A check on the weather since October (Seattle had a dry November with foggy mornings) would also show that most flight hours couldn't have been completed in that time. Production flight test do not fly at night BTW.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 03:59
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https://thewofa.com/2019/12/b737-max...e6019a0d26c8b0

"Boeing says the approval delays by regulators could cause the manufacturer to suspend the production of the MAX jets."
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 04:56
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Interesting to note the PR judo going on here, world class in that department at least. Boeing announces that the regulators will approve the fix by December, a timeline that could not legally have been based on anything other than hope. (The implication to the stockholders was that they had an inside line to the FAA.) The FAA denied that there was any such timeline. Now Boeing is blaming the potential revenue hit on "delays by regulators." Nicely done, Boeing PR.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 07:35
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Originally Posted by Water pilot View Post
Interesting to note the PR judo going on here, world class in that department at least. Boeing announces that the regulators will approve the fix by December, a timeline that could not legally have been based on anything other than hope. (The implication to the stockholders was that they had an inside line to the FAA.) The FAA denied that there was any such timeline. Now Boeing is blaming the potential revenue hit on "delays by regulators." Nicely done, Boeing PR.
To use a sporting analogy: "More spin than Shane Warne". (Hint: about the best leg-spinner cricket has ever produced (Dr. Google will provide all data)).
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by Water pilot View Post
Interesting to note the PR judo going on here, world class in that department at least. Boeing announces that the regulators will approve the fix by December, a timeline that could not legally have been based on anything other than hope. (The implication to the stockholders was that they had an inside line to the FAA.) The FAA denied that there was any such timeline. Now Boeing is blaming the potential revenue hit on "delays by regulators." Nicely done, Boeing PR.
Strikes me as quite scary for Boeing shareholders that the Company is desperate enough to take an antagonistic line towards the lead regulator (rather than the collaborative approach previously presented).

p.s. in re Warne, Muralitharan says "Hi"
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 09:18
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The test flights are out of KBFI or KPAE. They either head out over the Pacific about 50 miles off the coast or else to an area just west of Moses Lake. They use the call sign Boeing 1, and on flightaware.com as BOE1.
Yes, you can see the history and the number of flights.

The aircraft I see on FR occasionally got from renton west to LaPush, then to Moses Lake..simple ferry flights to storage.

Strikes me as quite scary for Boeing shareholders that the Company is desperate enough to take an antagonistic line towards the lead regulator (rather than the collaborative approach previously presented).
​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Read up on the recent debacle with the 787 lightening protection...coming to a Senate hearing near you.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 13:20
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Originally Posted by theFirstDave View Post
1,850 hours of actual wings in the air (or even Master Switch On) time during the 10 months since grounding, much less testing hours since the final software update, is a bit hard to believe and does not pass a sanity check.
One wonders if Boeing is counting simulator flight hours in that flight hours number. Given the amount of PR spin in the last 10 months, I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 13:54
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One wonders if Boeing is counting simulator flight hours in that flight hours number. Given the amount of PR spin in the last 10 months, I wouldn't be surprised.
In the latest, they do separate out sim vs actual flight tests. On FR, you can search for BOE and you will see the flights and history. As an example, BOE130 went from Renton to San Antonio
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 13:59
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Originally Posted by Water pilot View Post
Interesting to note the PR judo going on here, world class in that department at least. Boeing announces that the regulators will approve the fix by December, a timeline that could not legally have been based on anything other than hope. (The implication to the stockholders was that they had an inside line to the FAA.) The FAA denied that there was any such timeline. Now Boeing is blaming the potential revenue hit on "delays by regulators." Nicely done, Boeing PR.

FAA just announced 737 Max cert NOT done until 2020...

Boeing 737 MAX certification to extend into 2020, FAA chief says



By
Ryan Beene
BloombergBoeing’s 737 MAX certification, needed to end the jet’s nine-month worldwide grounding by regulators, will extend into 2020, the top U.S. aviation regulator said Wednesday.

Federal Aviation Administration chief Stephen Dickson said that the plane, which has been grounded worldwide since March, will not be certified to fly this year, dashing Boeing’s hopes of getting the popular family of planes back in the air in 2019.

“If you do the math, it’s going to extend into 2020,” Dickson told CNBC Wednesday before he is expected to testify before a congressional panel. “We’re going to do it diligently because safety is absolutely our priority with this airplane.”

--- goes on




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Old 11th Dec 2019, 14:14
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Originally Posted by Grebe View Post
FAA just announced 737 Max cert NOT done until 2020...

Fit to hit shan on FAA view of MAX - this extract from WSJ this am says it all - the article is longer

By Andy Pasztor and
Andrew Tangel
Dec. 11, 2019 8:00 am ET

U.S. regulators decided to allow the 737 MAX jet to keep flying after its first fatal crash last fall, despite their own analysis indicating it could become one of the most accident-prone airliners in decades without design changes.

The November 2018 internal Federal Aviation Administration analysis, expected to be released during a House committee hearing Wednesday, reveals that without agency intervention, the MAX could have averaged one fatal crash about every two or three years, according to industry officials and regulators. That amounts to a substantially greater safety risk than either Boeing Co. or the agency indicated publicly at the time.....
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 16:15
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Originally Posted by Tango and Cash View Post
One wonders if Boeing is counting simulator flight hours in that flight hours number. Given the amount of PR spin in the last 10 months, I wouldn't be surprised.
I also wonder if this somewhat third hand information passed through hands which don't understand the difference.

I can easily imagine someone who has had a briefing (but without notes given) then passing on to a third party "Boeing said they did 1850 hours of testing" and that other person thinking they meant "flight testing"
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 16:21
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Originally Posted by Mad (Flt) Scientist View Post
I also wonder if this somewhat third hand information passed through hands which don't understand the difference.

I can easily imagine someone who has had a briefing (but without notes given) then passing on to a third party "Boeing said they did 1850 hours of testing" and that other person thinking they meant "flight testing"
No, the figures are direct from the reports published by people having been invited.
By the way, here is the most complete account I could find about the visit (French only, I'm afraid)

Boeing 737 MAX et MCAS : résumé de deux jours passé au siège de Boeing à Seattle | Sécurité aérienne et peur en avion

It appears nothing new was revealed, apart from the dubious '1850' number.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 16:47
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For comparison, on November 11th, they were saying "1700+"... https://www.boeing.com/737-max-updates/
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 17:17
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I am trying to find the source again, perhaps the Senate hearings, where actual flight test were in the 200-300 hours range, the rest were sim.

GOL MAX 8 on its way to storage at SKF San Antonio right now.

Last edited by turbidus; 11th Dec 2019 at 17:57.
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