return of pay2fly programs?
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That is a long list
Good day.
Unfortunately P2F is still a severe issue in India.
In Europe it's different and for instance Avaaz is collecting signatures to bring a petition forward. EU commission shall deal with it. On the contrary I'm afraid it won't change in India soon. Many fresh graduates and little job opportunities. When masses aren't doing well and starving they don't have much incentives to handle these issues.
Unfortunately P2F is still a severe issue in India.
In Europe it's different and for instance Avaaz is collecting signatures to bring a petition forward. EU commission shall deal with it. On the contrary I'm afraid it won't change in India soon. Many fresh graduates and little job opportunities. When masses aren't doing well and starving they don't have much incentives to handle these issues.
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SKasana and MSD were big players in this dirty game. Rumors say he's somewhere in Europe. I think we can't bring P2F to an end but we can put some heavy obstacles in their way.
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Things will never change, as long ago as 1995, when I was looking for that first job, guys were paying for 737 ratings , with British midland. Of the 2 I knew that did it, one ended up at regional on the EMB and the other got an earlier offer on the Fokker.
It was tough then, the gulf war had killed demand. At least there were many smaller airlines to apply to as a non TR pilot....not so now , cock up your chance with easy or Ryanair and there’s not many other places to go.
And the idea that any new pilot who’s just spent €120k on their licence will campaign against P2F is ludicrous, their classmates will just run them down in the rush to sign up.......just don’t be amazed when you do a few years with loco and try and move onto better TCs because there won’t be any.
It was tough then, the gulf war had killed demand. At least there were many smaller airlines to apply to as a non TR pilot....not so now , cock up your chance with easy or Ryanair and there’s not many other places to go.
And the idea that any new pilot who’s just spent €120k on their licence will campaign against P2F is ludicrous, their classmates will just run them down in the rush to sign up.......just don’t be amazed when you do a few years with loco and try and move onto better TCs because there won’t be any.
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Oh common guys, stop crying about p2f! You decided to be a pilot, it's a hard job requires experience and a lot of steps to get into that. Why some company should pay for you - with a fresh CPL you're nothing in a commercial aviation, you don't have experience and nobody knows how good you're. Flying C150 is nothing with flying commercial jet, the common thing are physics laws and it has wings. In all professions you have to invest in yourself in the beggining. In the IT world you go though the additional ceritifcation courses and then you get a proper job. Being a doctor is more nightmare in financial view. So what the difference between IT, doctor or some other jobs?
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
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Oh common guys, stop crying about p2f! You decided to be a pilot, it's a hard job requires experience and a lot of steps to get into that. Why some company should pay for you - with a fresh CPL you're nothing in a commercial aviation, you don't have experience and nobody knows how good you're. Flying C150 is nothing with flying commercial jet, the common thing are physics laws and it has wings. In all professions you have to invest in yourself in the beggining. In the IT world you go though the additional ceritifcation courses and then you get a proper job. Being a doctor is more nightmare in financial view. So what the difference between IT, doctor or some other jobs?
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
I paid for my TR after CPL and now I've got almost 2000 hours and waiting for the LHS upgrade on bizjet. Other people I know who paid for B737/A320/ATR72 TR, went flying airlines, and now they've got 3000+ hours and also are in upgrade for captains (and somebody is already). But yeah, you can have your ideal principles and do annual 1h recurrents on Seneca to keep your MEP/IR rating and stil writing in Internet how life is hard. Yes, it's always easy to blame somebody or something in your fails, because then it's sort of not your fault. Because if you try and you fail then it's only you to blame. But let me brake this down for you - if you want something, you have to work hard, get used to it, it's all up to you!
I heard/read a lot of blames "Oh I spent 150k+ for my CPL, why should I spend 100k+ for my TR". First of all, If somebody spent 100k+ for the CPL in Europe, then I really doubt about his ability to make a proper desicions, because in EU you easily can get 0 to fATPL for 40-50k max. Second, TR costs you 15k-20k only for a popular B737/A320. And third, I lot of companies still provides bonds for TR or you can agreed on details. And fourth, there are a lot of different types of aircrafts, not only 320/380/737/777. Most of the "against p2f" people from my experience don't want to go for "smaller" aircrafts, but the pilot market for the Pilatus/Mustangs/Caravans/etc is big. Yeah, the salaries are smaller, but if you decided to go to aviation to earn money - you've chosen a wrong job.
Peace!
p2f always means that some good pilots still wait for a job while some bad pilots fly due to large pockets full of money.
this isn't only unfair, it's also completely wrong. you seem to be some lucky guy with some good parents and I wish you the best. But you are part of this toxic system and as long as there are pilots to engage in this scheme our position towards employers will always be weak. Instead of acting against your own colleagues one should support each other and fight for better working conditions and salaries. What you really don't see are long term consequences. You paid for your TR to get the first job. Let's say in a couple of years one other guy pays more to make a TR and to kick you out of the company. Who is going to save you if it gets that perverted? Mom and daddy? Or an even bigger amount of money to buy you back into the company? That's ridiculous. The global market is growing and we need to fight for our rights. Cheers
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p2f always means that some good pilots still wait for a job while some bad pilots fly due to large pockets full of money
you seem to be some lucky guy with some good parents and I wish you the best.
Let's say in a couple of years one other guy pays more to make a TR and to kick you out of the company. Who is going to save you if it gets that perverted?
Also, to find a pilot job in EU having a Russian passport I had to go through a lot of paperworks to get a work permit which took me about 4 months, and I have to renew it every 2 years + some additional stuff I have to pay for which regular EU person even don't know (insurance for my children, other paperworks and so on). So when some EU resident who has free access to the whole Europe job market tells me he cannot find a job - I cannot do anything just laugh.
The global market is growing and we need to fight for our rights.
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The North America part may be true now but a couple of yearss ago Gulfstream International Airlines and Gulfstream Training Academy had a program where students paid for a 1900D typerating and 250 hours.
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there is no evidence only good pilots wait for a job and bad pilots fly, it can be viceversa
All my money I spent for flying I earned myself or borrowed in banks.
I'm not afraid of it because I already proved I'm a good pilot and my company knows I'm good and can rely on me. In case I need to find another pilot job I will be able to prove my theoretical and practical knoweldge based on my experience.
Also, to find a pilot job in EU having a Russian passport I had to go through a lot of paperworks to get a work permit which took me about 4 months, and I have to renew it every 2 years + some additional stuff I have to pay for which regular EU person even don't know (insurance for my children, other paperworks and so on). So when some EU resident who has free access to the whole Europe job market tells me he cannot find a job - I cannot do anything just laugh.
Exactly, it's growing and changing and it's a market with its own demands. 10 years ago companies paid for TR due to lack of pilots, now there are a lot of them. Don't be a dinosaur like taxi drivers against Uber. To get a good job you need to prove you're good. How can you do that without experience? Why you didn't ask company to pay for your PPL training?
All my money I spent for flying I earned myself or borrowed in banks.
I'm not afraid of it because I already proved I'm a good pilot and my company knows I'm good and can rely on me. In case I need to find another pilot job I will be able to prove my theoretical and practical knoweldge based on my experience.
Also, to find a pilot job in EU having a Russian passport I had to go through a lot of paperworks to get a work permit which took me about 4 months, and I have to renew it every 2 years + some additional stuff I have to pay for which regular EU person even don't know (insurance for my children, other paperworks and so on). So when some EU resident who has free access to the whole Europe job market tells me he cannot find a job - I cannot do anything just laugh.
Exactly, it's growing and changing and it's a market with its own demands. 10 years ago companies paid for TR due to lack of pilots, now there are a lot of them. Don't be a dinosaur like taxi drivers against Uber. To get a good job you need to prove you're good. How can you do that without experience? Why you didn't ask company to pay for your PPL training?
And it's not true, that P2F students undergo the same procedures in a screening. Much easier to get onto right seat if not guaranteed. But is it safe for passengers and everybody else involved in operation? Doubt that. I guess there's a high number of undisclosed incidents / accidents invoked by P2F garbage.
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but airlines are winning big on pilots' shoulders through P2F
from my point of view you're just trying to justify the your own actions
you're promoting unequal screening and working conditions.
Doubt that. I guess there's a high number of undisclosed incidents / accidents invoked by P2F garbage
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I suggest you're referencing to the post about MSD company? So, first of all, before signing the contract you have to read it and check the facts and conditions. Second, lion air is a crap airline, I wouldn't go there if I get a free TR from them and definitely don't want to have this company in my CV. P2F doesn't mean you go for any first ****ty opportunity you get.
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I suggest you're referencing to the post about MSD company? So, first of all, before signing the contract you have to read it and check the facts and conditions. Second, lion air is a crap airline, I wouldn't go there if I get a free TR from them and definitely don't want to have this company in my CV. P2F doesn't mean you go for any first ****ty opportunity you get.
why are you advocating something that is obviously contraprodutive for the safety of the customers and adds to unequal competition between the pilots? it is an exclusive advantage for airlines with no scruples and wealthy new pilots!!
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I suggest you're referencing to the post about MSD company? So, first of all, before signing the contract you have to read it and check the facts and conditions. Second, lion air is a crap airline, I wouldn't go there if I get a free TR from them and definitely don't want to have this company in my CV. P2F doesn't mean you go for any first ****ty opportunity you get.
