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China Ground 737MAX

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China Ground 737MAX

Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:50
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Germany's minister for transportation and digital infrastructure (yes, i know, weird combination) blocks the 738M from german airspace.

See this tweet (german) from the official twitter account of that department.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:56
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish Airlines to ground their 12 MAXs. New user, can't post a link, just see the tweet by @yhyustun (SVP, press relations)

About TK’ operations with B737 MAX type aircrafts Turkish Airlines has stopped its operations that conducted with 12 B737 MAX type passenger aircrafts located in its fleet, until further notice. Concerning decision will start to be applied as from 13rd March 2019.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 15:59
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SteinarN View Post
I am waiting for EASA to anounce a closure of its airspace for the Max.
You will have a long wait. EASA has no authority to close any nation's airspace. It could, however, suspend the Max's Type Certificate.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:01
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.

When I look at this system from a systems perspective, it is a back up system whose intended function is to avoid a stall/accident.
Fix one problem, raise another one.
Nothing new under the sun.

I saw an interesting observation here regarding the Brazilian Certifying authority.
The Brazilian Certifying authority did, with Boeing's involvement, require MCAS training. What that training was would be interesting. I would assume somebody from GOL, a Max operator, would know what that was. If we find out we might know whether that type of training would have helped the Lion Air crew.
I am not sure if they called for this before or after the Lion Air accident. If before, that leaves open, to me, the question of why didn't all certifying authorities, FAA, CAA, Chinese, Norwegian... all of them, make that same demand?
Again, this is my bias showing since I do not believe that something that moves the flight controls should be hidden from, or a mystery to, the pilots.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:10
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
You will have a long wait. EASA has no authority to close any nation's airspace. It could, however, suspend the Max's Type Certificate.
Ahh, ok, my bad, thanks.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:25
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays.
Upselling.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:29
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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derjodel, would you care to elaborate? That answer is at best incomplete. (SW flies only 73's but American flies a variety of models. I've a friend who flies A320s for American).
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:31
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
How many airlines did what American and Southwest did? I understand that both of those airlines have an installed option (why it's an 'option' I have no idea, I'll let wiser heads reflect on that) that gives the pilots AoA displays. Given that AoA signal appears to figure in this back up system's operation, seems a smart move to me. What puzzles me is why any airline would not, but I am biased since I believe that pilots are supposed to fly aircraft, not guess at what an aircraft is doing.
.
I believe that customer option is not available with other customer options, so the airline in question has to choose which ones they want. As real estate on the PFD is at a premium (well, probably not on the MAX, never flown it and it has quite large screens) there is only so many places where any indicator like that can go. I flew 737NGs that had in the same space where American has its AoA display, a round dial RA display, as the space at the bottom of the AI where it would otherwise be was taken up by some other indication. So Boeing offers two different round dial displays for that position on the PFD, which show two completely different things.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 16:37
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CAA bans 737 MAX 8 from UK airspace.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...-asia-47536502

this is an excellent move. A few days too late.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:22
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Why? Other than all the experts on here no one yet knows what caused this.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:24
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Airspace bans might be less associated with the aircraft - at least until there is more information on this accident, than in the confidence of the certification process.

Considering what is currently known about Lion, Boeing’s proposals for modification, and the FAA position, then many National Authorities actions’ could be questioning their trust in the Max certification.
Various posts have cited concerns, perhaps these have hardened.

An interesting thread around these aspects is developing in Tech Log Boeing advice on "aerodynamically relieving airloads" using manual stabilizer trim
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:29
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Aerolineas Argentinas has also grounded the MAX fleet yesterday, waiting for some explanations from Boeing.

Last edited by Jorge_Vilarrubi; 12th Mar 2019 at 17:29. Reason: incomplete text
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:36
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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EASA has now suspended Max operations across Europe, effective 1900Z today.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-...rations-europe
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:49
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by act700 View Post
Why? Other than all the experts on here no one yet knows what caused this.
murmurings that if airlines where told anything unofficially they would be grounding a/c. Obviously something has been said
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 17:54
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
murmurings that if airlines where told anything unofficially they would be grounding a/c.
What does that mean?

The post to which you were replying was asking why the CAA had issued their ban. Given that EASA followed suit a few hours later, the reason for it is fairly obvious, though there may be an element of the CAA wishing to assert that it is capable of acting independently of EASA, as it will have to do post-Brexit.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 18:21
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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India is grounding the Max.

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Old 12th Mar 2019, 18:56
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United Arab Emirates grounding the Max.

Twitter
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 19:17
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Now Kuwait has banned its airspace for the Max, sorry, no link.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 19:25
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Has anyone questioned the ridiculous speeds (380 knots at one stage) while this plane was struggling? Were the flaps retracted, if not how could the airframe have survived this onslaught (correct me if I'm wrong max speed flap 5 is 180 knots). If the flaps were retracted, wouldn't that be suicidal at 900 feet?
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 20:02
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Pressure is really building on FAA.

Senator Tec Cruz, chairman of a subcommittee on aviation and space is saying it would be prudent to join other regulators and thereby he is urging FAA to ground the Max.
He also say he intends to hold a hearing to investigate these crashes.

Reuters
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