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China Ground 737MAX

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China Ground 737MAX

Old 11th Mar 2019, 02:24
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China Ground 737MAX

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China's aviation regulator has ordered domestic airlines to suspend their Boeing 737 Max aircraft, Chinese media outlet Caijing reported on Monday, following a deadly crash on Sunday of a 737 MAX 8 operated by Ethiopian Airlines.
Citing industry sources familiar with the matter, Caijing said domestic airlines, which operate some 60 such airplanes, had received orders from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) and halted their use on Sunday.
A Boeing spokesman declined to comment. The CAAC could not be immediately reached for comment.
An Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max 8 bound for Nairobi crashed minutes after take-off on Sunday, killing all 157 people on board.
This is the second crash of the 737 MAX, the latest version of Boeing’s workhorse narrowbody jet that first entered service in 2017.
In October, a 737 MAX flown by Indonesian budget carrier Lion Air flying from Jakarta on a domestic flight crashed 13 minutes after take-off, killing all 189 passengers and crew on board.
The cause of that crash is still being investigated. A preliminary report issued in November, before the cockpit voice recorder was recovered, focused on airline maintenance and training and the response of a Boeing anti-stall system to a recently replaced sensor but did not give a reason for the crash.
Caijing, a state-run news outlet that covers finance and economics, said many flights scheduled to use 737 Max planes would instead use the 737-800 models.
China Business News also reported on its website the 737 Max suspension, saying the regulators' order had been issued orally.
According to flight tracking website FlightRadar24 there were no Boeing 737 Max 8 planes flying over China as of 0043 GMT on Monday.
Most of Air China's 737 MAX fleet of 15 jets landed on Sunday evening, with the exception of two that landed on Monday morning from international destinations, according to FlightRadar24.
It did not list any upcoming scheduled flights for the planes.
China Eastern’s four 737 MAX jets landed on Sunday evening and no further flights were scheduled until Tuesday, FlightRadar24 data showed.
Cayman Airways has grounded both of its new 737 MAX 8 jets until more information was received, the Cayman Islands airline said in a statement on its website.
Fiji Airways said it had followed a comprehensive induction process for its new Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft and it had full confidence in the airworthiness of its fleet.
"We continue to ensure that our maintenance and training programme for pilots and engineers meets the highest safety standards," the airline said.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 03:04
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Never thought for a second that the Chinese would be the first to do this.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 04:06
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And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 04:17
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
a very astute interpretation....
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 05:12
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
Nothing to do with 2 crashes of the new aircraft in 6 months then...

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/internat...thiopian-crash

It is the second time in six months that the aircraft model has been involved in a horrific crash shortly after takeoff.
two other countries as well, no doubt more to follow

Ethiopian Airlines and Cayman Airways announced both airlines were suspending the use of the Boeing 737 MAX-8 until further notice
Boeing don't have a good record with new aircraft these days, the B787 took years to make safe.....
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 05:19
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
yes, they would seize on this as a way to embarrass the US.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 05:23
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Cayman Airlines have also suspended MAX operations
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 05:44
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The next thing to with Boeing to go down rapidly is going to be their share price today.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 06:51
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Just hope no Made in China stickers are found on aftermarket parts. That would be serious egg on their faces.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 07:51
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trade war

Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
I thought the US started and therfore is in a trade war with China.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:11
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
That's probably not wrong, but a bit oversimplified. There are probably a number of authorities wondering whether or not they should ground the type; doubtless the decision of the PRC was influenced by the question, "Well, if they don't trust Huawei infrastructure, why should we trust an old, kluged-up aeroplane design?"
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:12
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
And why not? Anything to embarrass the US. They are in a trade war with the US, and in a virtual cold war over the South China Sea.
that is a dumb interpretation. The Chinese authorities have long wielded the feared approach of strict and often punitive measures (i.e. lifetime bans for pilots) for even smaller transgressions. The reason is that the Chinese population has zero acceptance of risks and accidents and is very vocal about it, which often leads to the dismissal of officials when something bad happens. The politicians like keeping their jobs and thus they act.

You can see this happen all the time. Terrorist attack in Paris? Tourism absolutely plummets for six months. Turkish Airlines has an incident? Get ready for major discounts because the loads evaporate. The reaction is much more massive than in the US, which has to do with the Chinese internet being nearly 100% social media. Massive recalls had to be launched by companies from all over the planet because that's how finicky Chinese consumers are. Go ask Volkswagen.

This has nothing to do with the US. Not everything is about you.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:25
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Originally Posted by krautland View Post
This has nothing to do with the US. Not everything is about you.
Shhhhh don't burst their bubble. They're comfortable in it.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:44
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This is Absolutely justified. I too am a little surprised that China is the first country to do this, but politics aside, this is a brand new "state of the art" 737 that's had 2 crashes in the same phase of flight literally months apart. Both brand new aircraft fresh off the production line. All new aircaft go through teething problems but this problem has cost 340 lives.


While we don't know the cause at the present time, it is extremely concerning.

I mean, as a pilot how would you honestly feel walking down the aerobridge getting on one of these things? No thanks.



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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:47
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I see the US has responded 'unsure what information China is acting on' regarding the grounding of the MAX ? Err maybe the two similar crashes in 5 months of a new model is enough for airlines to be cautious until the problem is no more.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:50
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Newish only

Originally Posted by MajorLemond View Post
This is Absolutely justified. I too am a little surprised that China is the first country to do this, but politics aside, this is a brand new "state of the art" 737 that's had 2 crashes in the same phase of flight literally months apart. Both brand new aircraft fresh off the production line. All new aircaft go through teething problems but this problem has cost 340 lives.


While we don't know the cause at the present time, it is extremely concerning.

I mean, as a pilot how would you honestly feel walking down the aerobridge getting on one of these things? No thanks.
First delivery of a max 8 was in 2017 to Malindo, 350 odd of type delivered since. Not that new.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 09:50
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Originally Posted by MajorLemond View Post
This is Absolutely justified. I too am a little surprised that China is the first country to do this, but politics aside, this is a brand new "state of the art" 737 that's had 2 crashes in the same phase of flight literally months apart. Both brand new aircraft fresh off the production line. All new aircaft go through teething problems but this problem has cost 340 lives.


While we don't know the cause at the present time, it is extremely concerning.

I mean, as a pilot how would you honestly feel walking down the aerobridge getting on one of these things? No thanks.
It's puzzling that EASA and FAA have not grounded it as well. And to those saying "we must first know the reason to justify grounding", I deeply disagree. E.g. the reason for Comet crashes was not understood as well (square windows and resultant forces at the edges). Should they just kept them flying and crashing saying "well it's a perfctly flying airplane, there should not be reason for them to just fall apart mid-air"?

Ground and make sure it's not mcas related first. If it's something completely unrelated, lift the ban if it seems appropriate. In the mean time, everybody is gambling with people's lives.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 10:03
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Originally Posted by MajorLemond View Post
This is Absolutely justified. I too am a little surprised that China is the first country to do this, but politics aside, this is a brand new "state of the art" 737 that's had 2 crashes in the same phase of flight literally months apart. Both brand new aircraft fresh off the production line. All new aircaft go through teething problems but this problem has cost 340 lives.
Sorry to disagree with you but this is a very old design that has been modified many times to the point where it no longer resembles the original but relies on its grandfather certification.

Were the shoe on the other foot Boeing and the US would be crowing about Airbus failures. The Comet and Concorde were written of with a lot less fatalities.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 10:21
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post


Sorry to disagree with you but this is a very old design that has been modified many times to the point where it no longer resembles the original but relies on its grandfather certification.

Were the shoe on the other foot Boeing and the US would be crowing about Airbus failures. The Comet and Concorde were written of with a lot less fatalities.
CAAC is within it's rights to raise concerns on the compliance of a product to the certification standard. The B737's grandfather status is not something that the OEM should be proud o, and the fact that it exists as a consequence of the nonsense of Part 61 requirements which are a bureaucratic complexity to a relatively simple task in todays world.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 10:31
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The talk about China embarresing Boeing, then the same could be said about US Airforce that has halted all deliveries of the Boeing tanker, due to tools and scrap found on delivered aircraft. Seems like Boeing needs to get their house in order.
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