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BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar

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BAW492 diversion at Gibraltar

Old 28th Feb 2019, 14:46
  #101 (permalink)  

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With RA 1+2 fault the Direct Law is tied to the L/G position, i.e. active when down. That piece fits in what cessnapete says.

The bank angles shown on the videos are hard to explain with a simple PIO, even if in direct law. AAIB will tell.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 20:30
  #102 (permalink)  
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Direct Law and then lateral PIO seems very plausible as incident speculation goes. Something which this forum has thrived on from its very earliest days.

Screaming “wait for the official report” is like being angry at the sea for drowning people.


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Old 1st Mar 2019, 04:56
  #103 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
....
The bank angles shown on the videos are hard to explain with a simple PIO, even if in direct law. AAIB will tell.
Will the AAIB investigate? Was there any damage or was anybody injured?

Personally speaking, I would be surprised if the crew waited for a wind shear warning if the aircraft dropped into direct law on approach at most airports, and especially at GIB. Itís not a place where you can afford to muck around in with a medium size airliner.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 07:54
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Co Pilot handling the approach-BA SOP. At some point a double R Alt. fault/indication occurred which put the aircraft into Direct Law. (aircraft handles like a normal non FBW plane)
The co-pilot flew the Wind Sheer Go-around.
I've flown a windshear escape maneuver in the sim when an unpredicted side-effect of a new lesson plan managed to simulate a dual rad-alt failure and a windshear encounter simultaneously. It's not a scenario I'd wish on anyone, especially as the failure occurred literally as I pushed the thrust levers forward. The startle effect; the totally unexpected aircraft response of a violent and uncontrollable pitch-up (prompt nose down trim is the only way to fix this, and you have to do this while you're sitting in approach to stall), loss of roll stability, and the escape from the windshear frightened me absolutely rigid. It's easy to tell yourself it's a simulator after the event, but the reality is that your brain doesn't process it that way.

We "survived", but I'm in a cold sweat writing about it six years later. If it genuinely was the fault suggested above, then my humble opinion is that it was very well flown given the circumstances.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 10:00
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
The bank angles shown on the videos are hard to explain with a simple PIO, even if in direct law. AAIB will tell.
If there was no report submitted by the crew, there will be no AAIB investigation!
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 10:53
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently Airbuses are prone to this rocking ( ? )
There was this case some years ago with a TAP, landing LPPT 21 on a windy / sheary... day :

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Old 1st Mar 2019, 13:06
  #107 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by speedrestriction View Post
Will the AAIB investigate? Was there any damage or was anybody injured?
For PIO most certainly not. In the other suggested case of an FBW self-induced, uncommanded oscillations I am sure they will, based on a mandatory report by the operator.

jcomm That's pilot induced, watch how the aeroplane stabilizes once the crew stops trying. If you adjust for the sound delay, wings go level immediately once go-around thrust is set.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 19:20
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently the autopilot was in the whole time.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 20:11
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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OBK! - do you have a reference for this statement? Does this mean that the autopilot was engaged during both the period of roll oscillation and during the subsequent recovery to wings level flight? That would pretty much rule out any further discussion of PIO for this one.
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Old 1st Mar 2019, 20:35
  #110 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FCeng84 View Post
OBK! - do you have a reference for this statement? Does this mean that the autopilot was engaged during both the period of roll oscillation and during the subsequent recovery to wings level flight? That would pretty much rule out any further discussion of PIO for this one.
I'm assuming they have read the same email as me. So yes. Autopilot engaged throughout. Oscillations stopped on gear up/F3.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 06:46
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing

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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 07:39
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing
Several versions linked earlier in this thread were clones and taken down due to copyright violation. The owner Dave Clough has become an accidental video sensation. An edited version showing only the most relevant portion of the flight was uploaded by him yesterday:

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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 07:42
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Not sure if this has been on here before but this is the long version from inside the aircraft and starts 36 seconds before the cabin crew are told to take their seat for landing
Action starts at around 5:45.

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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 08:13
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Action starts at around 5:45.
Again, not an Airbus man, but surely if such wild oscilations occurred with Auto pilot engaged, would you not disengage and fly the aircraft manually?
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 08:31
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cessnapete View Post
Again, not an Airbus man, but surely if such wild oscilations occurred with Auto pilot engaged, would you not disengage and fly the aircraft manually?
Well, that all depends on what was going on at the time, doesnít it? If you were in the middle of a windshear escape manoeuvre in an area well known for extreme turbulence in the prevailing conditions would you really increase your workload by taking the autopilot out? Iím not sure I would but then I wasnít there at the time. None of us were.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 08:44
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Well, that all depends on what was going on at the time, doesnít it? If you were in the middle of a windshear escape manoeuvre in an area well known for extreme turbulence in the prevailing conditions would you really increase your workload by taking the autopilot out? Iím not sure I would but then I wasnít there at the time. None of us were.
That wasn't a windshear escape, it was quite consistent major rhythmic oscillations that went on and on. If it was a windshear escape in my aeroplane, I'd be getting rid of the AP PDQ. That thing had lost the plot if the AP was in.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 09:11
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Hard to beleive the AP was on. It’s so stable regardless of the outside condition when AP is engaged and I beleive it would trip off in such case. But yeah, I was not there also.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 09:33
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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If PIO why would it last for so long and be so regular? If not why leave on the autopilot at all?

Last edited by Kerosene Kraut; 2nd Mar 2019 at 11:23.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 10:20
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Very plausible with a set of crew who never hand fly... In the other hand I never saw or heard an A 320 behaving like this with AP. But I might be wrong. Let's wait for the final report. Hopefully we can access it.
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Old 2nd Mar 2019, 10:43
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
That wasn't a windshear escape, it was quite consistent major rhythmic oscillations that went on and on. If it was a windshear escape in my aeroplane, I'd be getting rid of the AP PDQ. That thing had lost the plot if the AP was in.
If you can say what your actions would have been after having a bit of a think about it having watched a couple of posted videos, rather than the information available to the crew, not to mention the considerable “startle-factor”, then that’s a bit worrying.


Last edited by Doug E Style; 2nd Mar 2019 at 11:01.
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