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50 Years of the 747

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

50 Years of the 747

Old 11th Feb 2019, 23:34
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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380 may be called the " super jumbo " (arguably) , but on the Queen of the Skies flight deck , sitting 29 feet up there , you looked down on pretty much everybody , 380 included . What was amazing was how quickly one adjusted to this somewhat bizarre situation when manoeuvring on the ground and when landing . As Shakespeare said - " What a piece of work is man ".
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 23:55
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CONSO View Post
The ' hump' for the upper deck helped to achieve a slightly higher mach number due to the famous " area rule " which simply states making the station to staion projected area " curve" as smooth as possible, so the hump slowly provided an increase in the transverse cross section area from the nose to the hump to the wing area.
When they incorporated the stretched upper deck for the 747-300 (and later the -400), the longer upper deck improved the area ruling enough that it compensated for the increased weight of the upper deck. In fact KLM had the longer upper deck retrofit to their 747-200s - and was pleasantly surprised to find it didn't affect the fuel burn at all. They basically got some extra seat miles for no increase in operating costs.

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 00:21
  #23 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
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Last year, on a trip to South Africa, I ensured I returned JNB-FRA on LH's 748. Upstairs in C - well worth it. Friends gave me a key fob from V-FAB, Lady Penelope. And I have been on: -100, -200, -300, SP, -400, -800. But no freighters!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 01:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve flown in the -100s to -400s, including the SP. My last flight was on an EVA 400 last November. I don’t imagine I will be flying on one again.

The first time I saw one was at Heathrow in either 1969 or 1970. We had gone to meet my Dad who was flying back from Rome. We went to the viewing gallery (as you did in those days). While we were watching Dad’s Alitalia DC-9 taxiing by, a BOAC 747 was being towed westwards on an outer taxiway. It dwarfed the DC-9. I don’t know why it was being towed, as BOAC were not yet operating them - BALPA were in dispute with management about how much extra the pilots should be paid!

A QANTAS pilot friend of mine told me that once, on an SP ferry flight, they “accidentally” did a full-power takeoff. He said the deck angle and rate-of-climb were phenomenal.

In 1985, my kids, who were seasoned world-travelers due to my peripatetic career in the oil industry, had their first flight in a 737. We walked down the jetway at Singapore and through the door. My six-year old son looked around and said “Dad, where’s the spiral-staircase?”
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 02:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Article with great photos on the 747:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ry-in-pictures
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 09:04
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Way back in the mid-70s I discovered that SAA put one of their SPs on the JNB -Durban run every wednesday while the horrible A300 was getting its weekly service. Guess which day I always tried to schedule my Durban meetings.....
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 10:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
When they incorporated the stretched upper deck for the 747-300 (and later the -400), the longer upper deck improved the area ruling enough that it compensated for the increased weight of the upper deck. In fact KLM had the longer upper deck retrofit to their 747-200s - and was pleasantly surprised to find it didn't affect the fuel burn at all. They basically got some extra seat miles for no increase in operating costs.
Thanks - Sadly what was the Achilles heal of the -200SUD conversions, and also the 300 series, was that the upper deck floor was not strong enough for the new wave of big heavy electric F/J/C Class seats that were becoming de rigueur with all the legacy airlines - The seats simply were too heavy for the UD floor plus channelling the electrics posed issues.

The upper deck was of course more popular for F and J/C seats therefore the resale and re-use values of these two somewhat ''orphan fleets'' was not very good.

The -400 did not suffer from this UD floor issue.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:15
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Was the aircraft that flew the inaugural New York to London destroyed at Tenerife in '77?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piper mohawk View Post
Was the aircraft that flew the inaugural New York to London destroyed at Tenerife in '77?
Seems yes - Clipper Victor | Pan American Clippers Wikia | FANDOM powered by Wikia
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:50
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by India Four Two View Post


A QANTAS pilot friend of mine told me that once, on an SP ferry flight, they “accidentally” did a full-power takeoff. He said the deck angle and rate-of-climb were phenomenal.

yes, i spoke with a QF pilot who had taken off from Wellington NZ in a SP with minimal fuel load, lots of throttle, and v steep body angle. Maybe the same pilot. This is going back over 30yrs.

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:36
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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As a boy, in 1972, I flew on a PanAm 747 from LHR to IAD. I will never forget it. I wish I had the opportunity to actually fly it as a pilot. All the 747 models were beautiful looking airplanes. Contrast that to the flying forehead known as the 380...
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:55
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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copperplace,

An empty VC10 wasn't bad either!!
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Reluctant Bus Driver View Post
As a boy, in 1972, I flew on a PanAm 747 from LHR to IAD. I will never forget it. I wish I had the opportunity to actually fly it as a pilot. All the 747 models were beautiful looking airplanes. Contrast that to the flying forehead known as the 380...
We all have our opinions - & mine doesn’t agree with your’s ! A380 ? Beautiful aeroplane; & so much better to fly in as a passenger.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 17:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I find the 747 most amazing in the story of Robert Buck who started at TWA on the DC-2 and retired as their acceptance Captain on the 747. It is amazing how far and fast aviation moved in those @40yrs.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 22:20
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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... and anybody want to venture a guess how many 747s will roll off the line after the Airbus shuts down the 380.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 22:50
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1 View Post
copperplace,

An empty VC10 wasn't bad either!!
Very true and quiet with it. At least inside. Flew from RNO to SFO as one of only two pax on a CRJ, Friday evening with the drivers anxious to get home for the weekend. Memorable!

Sorry for thread drift. Back to scheduled programme.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 02:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piper mohawk View Post
Was the aircraft that flew the inaugural New York to London destroyed at Tenerife in '77?
Yes, but almost no. Clipper Victor was brought out to replace the aeroplane originally scheduled to do the run when that one went sick.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 04:00
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by voyageur9 View Post
... and anybody want to venture a guess how many 747s will roll off the line after the Airbus shuts down the 380.
The 747-8F appears to still have a future - all those 747-400F and BCFs are not going to last forever, and if you want to carry more than ~100 tons, the 747 Freighter is the only game in town.
An old work buddy told me the Boeing isn't offering the 747-8 passenger version any more (although if someone came in and wanted to buy a bunch I'm sure Boeing would reconsider...), but I'm guessing the -8 Freighter will be in production for another decade.
The real question is how much longer will Airbus be willing to throw good money after bad on the A380 - at the current production rate they aren't even selling them for what it costs to build one...
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 04:37
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Devil upper deck disco dance floor

Hello from Mississauga On Canada I have just retired from Air Canada after 38 years as an AME.You could say I was bred for the job as my Mom was one of the first flight attendents for TCA {Loadstar,DC-3 North star } and my Dad was a pilot with TCA {DC-3 Northstar Super Conni Bristol Freighter Vicount Vanguard DC-8 }. When I was about 14 years old my Dad told us we were going to Paris for vacation and would be flying on the brand new B-747. Our family got seats in the front end and the head pursuer was an old family friend .We were served Roast beef from a huge roast on a trolly carved with a huge carving knife and fork.Next the pursuer invited myself and my sister to the upper deck and showed us the stand up bar and the lighted disco dance floor.He had me pick some music for the 8 track and we rocked on!!! But the best was yet to come. My Dad said it was time to visit the flight deck and he warned me to make sure the Captain was looking at me when we talked as he would need to lip read me due to the fact he was almost deaf !!!! Dad went on to explain that the Captain could still pass the medical if he wore a headset. I remember the flight deck was quite tight and my dad and the captain launched into a long conversation. Suddenly the co-pilot interrupted with a worried look on his face and my dad said it was time to go back to our seats. We had an engine failure and we had to turn back to Newfoundland. But that's another story !!!!!
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 05:04
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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The real question is how much longer will Airbus be willing to throw good money after bad on the A380 - at the current production rate they aren't even selling them for what it costs to build one...
well under Gatt92 ( WTO) the game is IF airbus does NOT meet sales numbers by x years, then a significant part of the low cost loans, ( eg subsidies ) is forgiven- but they must show a REAL try to meet the numbers predicted at the costs and $$ sales predicted. otherwise Airbus and friends would be accused of ' gaming ' the system- which they would NEVER do
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