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Airlines must be majority EU owned

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Airlines must be majority EU owned

Old 3rd Feb 2019, 19:57
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Airlines must be majority EU owned

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-major-routes

Can they actually do this?
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 20:02
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The FT repeated the “warning” in an article yesterday so I suspect “they”, as in the EU, think they can.

If you want to read the FT piece try googling something like FT EU gives airlines deadline for no-deal Brexit..it might help you avoid a paywall.

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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 20:11
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This has always been the case.
However, while operating under EU law, this is not an issue, it is once EU membership is renounced.

Simplest solution: revoke article 50 and stay in EU with all its benefits, save billions more than the money you pay into the EU and claim to save for the NHS.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 20:22
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Originally Posted by BirdmanBerry View Post
This is not actually news as Ryanair and Easyjet were very clear they had already amended Aricles of Association to compulsorarily acquire shares of Uk citizens if required to reach the threshold. They announced this in 2016.

Issue ,may be with BA as its owned by IAG and that will have to be >50 % owned by EU citizens whoch may mean Gulf investment comes under scruitiny. UK Govt may demand any UK airline is majority owned by UK citizens which could be an issue and force divestment.Likely BA may concentrate solely on LH and IAG elements do EU flights.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 21:01
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And Thomas Cook plc? Owning Thomas Cook Scandinavia, Condor and Thomas Cook Balearics?
How are they going to demonstrate European ownership?
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 21:17
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Indigo Partners and Wizz air run rings around this EU legislation laughing all the way to the bank.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 22:10
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Welcome to the minefield. It is possible to have an airline which only has one small office and holds an operating certificate.
Everything else can be outsourced as in the (infamous) case of an IOM operation,

What is the EU definition of an airline and ownership ?

Here be dragons.
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Old 3rd Feb 2019, 23:32
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I think things have moved on a little since that article was published in The Guardian - March 22, 2017!
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 00:42
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So what about the Chicago convention and what about Norwegian, Swiss and iIcelandair sounds like total bollocks I am not a supporter of Brext but come on???
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 07:27
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None of the airlines you cite above operate intra-EU flights necessitating fifth or seventh freedom rights. The legislation affects point-to-point flights inside the EU without stops within the operators home country.
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 07:28
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What about the Chicago convention? : Article 6: (Scheduled air services) No scheduled international air service may be operated over or into the territory of a contracting State, except with the special permission or other authorization of that State.

Swizerland is part of the EFTA
Iceland is part of the EEA
Norway is part of the EEA

Any other questions?
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 09:59
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Originally Posted by matkat View Post
So what about the Chicago convention and what about Norwegian, Swiss and iIcelandair sounds like total bollocks I am not a supporter of Brext but come on???
I think the problem is not that they are not allowed to fly in/over European airspace, but that they need to acquire permission to do so.
Permission which needs to be required after a brexit, which can take a while.
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 10:16
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This is only for an airline to operate within Europe, eg a flight from say Brussels to Madrid. If the flight is, say, from London to Madrid on a UK airline then this doesn’t change after Brexit. If a “UK” airline wanted to operate within Europe they would have to be European, not British, hence easyJet setting up their Austrian AOC, being European means that at least 51% of them is European owned
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 10:24
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Can they actually do this?
sounds like total bollocks
I thought this was a Professional Pilot network... But ok:
YES THEY CAN AND THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY1.....

And it is not
"can they do that"
but
"I didnt realise I voted for this and only now start to realize how the real world works ? I have no [email protected] clue about international traffic rights, my politicians lied to me as they knew but didnt tell me, my newspapers never told me honestly how the real world works and I believed lying Nigel who buggered off the day after the vote and realized what sh!t he had created"

So in short: THIS WAS CLEAR FROM DAY 1 SO CALL YOUR [email protected]@DY MP AND MOAN TO THEM AS THEY HAVE LIED TO YOU, NOBODY ELSE.

Ps: re negotiations: your politicians never told you it have never been NEGOTIATIONS. Under article 50 you have 6 (six) scenarios and you pick one. Your government was aware of this and has had 2 (TWO) year to pick one but they keep telling you we go back to Brussel to negotiate.... Lies, lies and politics... But hey keep dreaming of Rule Brittania and calling it project fear..


Rant over
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 11:08
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The elephant in the room is BA and trans-atlantic traffic rights. Divesting enough shares off IAG to make it 51% EU owned and controlled is a big task as it is, made no less complicated by having a single non-EU/non-UK shareholder owning than 20% of IAG (Qatar Airways). However, finding a way to make BA 51% UK owned, whilst simultaneously finding a way to have Iberia, Level, Aer Lingus and Vueling 51% EU owned and controlled, is an impossible task. Put simply, IAG can't be EU and UK controlled at the same time. One could come up with a construction where the individual airlines retain separate ownership, but that would also spell the end for the IAG umbrella.

If BA is less than 51% UK owned and controlled post brexit, transatlantic traffic rights to the US is in serious jeopardy. If IAG is less than 51% EU owned and controlled, Vueling, Iberia, Level and Aer Lingus cannot operate intra-EU flights, which represents 90% of their combined operations.

One possible solution could be to take BA out of IAG completely, with all the competitive disadvantages that would bring. At this point in time, that seems like one of a very few possible scenarios.

What this will undoubtedly mean is, that if you're an airline employee working for BA, your future is in serious jeopardy. Then again, the same can be said for almost every UK based employee and business owner.
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 11:42
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This was the reason why KLM is still technically a Dutch company too (much to the annoyance of the French and the holding in Paris..) They have a structure that ensure that for traffic right reasons they are Dutch. Took a while to set up and is not easy to replicate for BA in case for a No deal I guess but then I assume they have spend a LOT of money on this already at IAG board level to find a way out of this mess...
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 13:31
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Bit harsh, innit ?

But hey, at least you gonna save a ton on payments towards the EU, so the NHS will be a shining example of a health system within weeks from Brexit.
But no airlines to fly the new NHS staff from abroad into the UK

Harsh? No sheer stupidity of the Brexiteers
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 13:44
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Originally Posted by safelife View Post
And Thomas Cook plc? Owning Thomas Cook Scandinavia, Condor and Thomas Cook Balearics?
How are they going to demonstrate European ownership?
Thomas Cook are German owned surely, so no problem there, except perhaps with long haul from UK to USA.
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 16:01
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Thomas Cook are German owned surely, so no problem there, except perhaps with long haul from UK to USA.
Thomas Cook was originally a british company, nothing to do with germany. No idea about the nationality of their shareholders, which is after all the problem. But even so, as a british company, they will not be able to own european airlines like Condor Flugdienst in Germany (which is currently owned by TC), unless they change to become a european one. Which then might mean problems for their UK airline.

That said, TUI used to be a german owned business (originally called Preussag), and still is based in Hannover, Lower Saxony, Germany. Since a quarter of that is owned by a russian Oligarch, they might need to work hard on the rest of their shareholders.
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Old 4th Feb 2019, 16:06
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Most countries (including the EU) require national airlines to be both owned AND controlled by nationals of that country. That means that the majority of directors must be of that nationality too. Quite a problem for ALL UK airlines right now
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