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BHX ATC Down

Old 23rd Dec 2018, 18:23
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Devil BHX ATC Down

BBC reporting BHX air traffic notam indicating airfield closed until at least 2200 today
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 18:31
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Originally Posted by Prangster View Post
BBC reporting BHX air traffic notam indicating airfield closed until at least 2200 today
NOTAM is valid until 2200 but the wording says

B) 18/12/23 18:44 C) 18/12/23 22:00 E) ALL BIRMINGHAM ATC SERVICE IS SUSPENDED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE DUE TO A SYSTEM FAILURE. DELAY NOT DETERMINED.
So could be shorter - or longer. Electronic Flight Plan system is down according to the Beeb
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...ngham-46668635

Several flights already diverted to EMA, MAN and LHR whilst the LH FRA flight has gone back to FRA..

Last edited by Suzeman; 23rd Dec 2018 at 18:45.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 18:42
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And now re-open at 1940

EK A380 was on its way to MAN is turning back as is a FlyBe Dash 8 which was going to EMA
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 19:40
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Grrr

Originally Posted by Suzeman View Post
And now re-open at 1940

EK A380 was on its way to MAN is turning back as is a FlyBe Dash 8 which was going to EMA
folk delayed 3 hours sat on the runway! apparently according to one of our daily newspapers! lol
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 20:15
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So could be shorter - or longer. Electronic Flight Plan system is down according to the Beeb
That's progress for you....
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 01:44
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
That's progress for you....
Yep, when tech goes sideways it can make one yearn for the "no batteries required" approach of years gone by...
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 06:47
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What I don’t get is why you need the flight planning computer to let aircraft land?
They were stacked in the hold anyway, just do it all procedurally. What do you need a flight planning computer for?
At that time last night it was practically VFR conditions anyway.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 07:48
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Many ATCOs no longer validated on procedural approaches. Some SOPs forbid night visual approaches
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 08:00
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Originally Posted by Jonty View Post
What I donít get is why you need the flight planning computer to let aircraft land?
They were stacked in the hold anyway, just do it all procedurally. What do you need a flight planning computer for?
At that time last night it was practically VFR conditions anyway.
I think you'll find that ALL flight data was lost, so they would neither know what was coming or be able pass data to the relevant ATC centre for departures.

Nobody said there was any sort of radar failure.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 10:58
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Is this the ATC version of 'loss of basic stick and rudder skills' that some (OK, mainly older) pilots are concerned about?
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:11
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What with this and drones that might, or might not, be somewhere...

The UK is getting to the stage where we can't survive in the wild! We are now having to hold risk assessment meetings to see if it's safe to make a risk assessment. We insure our insurance policies. No-one feels confident to make a common sense decision, for fear of breaking a rule that might be there, or not.

One of these days we're going to run a round in such tight circles that we're going to disappear up you know where.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:11
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Jonty, I was thinking the same thing , but I already knew the answer: Controllers can't control and pilots can't fly anymore without the aid of modern technology. It's a fact of life, but the cost of maintaining steam powered proficiency for these once in a million glitches is not financially viable.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:13
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
Jonty, I was thinking the same thing , but I already knew the answer: Controllers can't control and pilots can't fly anymore without the aid of modern technology. It's a fact of life, but the cost of maintaining steam powered proficiency for these once in a million glitches is not financially viable.
I think all the inconvenienced passengers might disagree with that.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:15
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I think all the inconvenienced passengers might disagree with that.
Until they saw what it would do to the price of their tickets!!! Who do you think would pay for it, Father Christmas!
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:56
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Originally Posted by tmmorris View Post
Is this the ATC version of 'loss of basic stick and rudder skills' that some (OK, mainly older) pilots are concerned about?
Air traffic has changed so much since the days of being able to do things procedurally that it would be impossible to do it with the current levels of traffic we have in the UK. Those basic skills aren't trained anymore as there's no point having them
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 11:56
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Once in a million glitches.. or twice in a year like in BHX's case...
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 12:00
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FFS - what happened to telephone calls from the centre to the airfield and then giving a radar handover? I'll ask Swanwick ATCO son and D-I-L when they arrive in half an hour!!
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 12:10
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Originally Posted by The Fat Controller View Post
I think you'll find that ALL flight data was lost, so they would neither know what was coming or be able pass data to the relevant ATC centre for departures.

Nobody said there was any sort of radar failure.
that doesnít explain inbounds. How much flight data do you need to allow an aircraft shoot an ILS?

I am yet to understand why aircraft holding with in range of the airport couldnít go on to land. At worst you would release one from the hold to self position and fly the ILS, once landed you release the next one. The go around keeps aircraft well clear of the holding stack. One wonders how aircraft fly without ATC?!?
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 16:20
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If the ATCOs have lost flight data, that will likely include their electronic strips, which will include all the aircraft on the airfield that have started and are moving, recovering that situation will mean a complete stop on new movements.
Recovery from that will take time, reversion to hand written strips is only possible if you have the data to hand AND there is provision for it.
Data transfer at large airfields, both in and out is electronic, you cannot magic a EGBB inbound coordinator out of the air at Swanwick or Prestwick centres, there are just not the staff or procedures to do it.
If EGBB called a stop, they did so for very good reasons.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 20:25
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
What with this and drones that might, or might not, be somewhere...

The UK is getting to the stage where we can't survive in the wild! We are now having to hold risk assessment meetings to see if it's safe to make a risk assessment. We insure our insurance policies. No-one feels confident to make a common sense decision, for fear of breaking a rule that might be there, or not.

One of these days we're going to run a round in such tight circles that we're going to disappear up you know where.
You have hit the nail right on the head
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