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Flybe pilot develops a fear of flying

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Flybe pilot develops a fear of flying

Old 12th Nov 2018, 19:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Agree that the rules are madness. Isn’t it a shame that certain individuals can’t take a bit of responsibility for themselves? I.e. you can now no longer fulfil the requirements of the role, so give it up and find something else to do... Don’t expect the company to pay you on 100% leave!
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 19:45
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I'm just at the final stages of a similar dismissal in my job (not related to flying in any way) and the hoops an employer has to jump through are numerous. employees today have so many rights.

I have bundles of notes, emails and everything that ever been said between myself and the employee and still the solicitor is nervous to make sure everything is covered.

We've had to try and offer alternative positions to the employee to show we have done everything we can.

Each meeting brought out another matter and then we had to have another meeting to discuss that and so on....
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 19:46
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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An employee with a mental health illness should be given the same sick leave and possible medical retirement privileges as an employee with a physical illness. Anything less is discriminatory.
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 23:40
  #24 (permalink)  
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An employee with a mental health illness should be given the same sick leave and possible medical retirement privileges as an employee with a physical illness. Anything less is discriminatory.
If you had a brain tumor and just before the op to remove it, you found out that the surgeon had a phobia towards brain matter, was relieved of his position but one "i" was not dotted and the hospital was forced to re-employ him, what would your position be?
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 00:52
  #25 (permalink)  
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After many nights of flying to Spain in the bad old days with no radar, I found my young co-pilot self in the middle of one heck of a storm. Thrown out the tops, and falling back into the flashing mess, we twice went below the safety heigh for the mountains. Many times the horizon bar hid behind the curtains, and one 20 minute leg took 45 minutes. I couldn't believe it when my skipper said we'd better hurry as we were so late. Blood and sick had to be cleaned off the cabin roof. I planned shoving over to the east but we were soon in it again. We popped out into fantastic clear skies near Toulouse, but it was then we had a 4" hole blown through the right wing. It went around the fuel and out in line with the opposite hole.

The skipper had asked me to fly and had just flicked his Zippo lighter as the bang happened. The image of his staring eyes still makes me laugh.

So, it had its lighter moments. (sorry)

Anyway, it was the next night that a bW$%^ great bolt hit the ground as I was driving to LHR. I chickened out. I don't think I've ever admitted this before, but that's what I did. I went sick.

I gave myself a good talking to about how long it had taken me to get to this point, and was I going to give up now, kind of conversation. Next night, back in it, but with a new determination that seemed to last the next decades. Of course, having radar and being two miles higher helped.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 06:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Just in the interest of balance, BALPA have replied to the press article.

BALPA response on pilot 'fear of flying' story

Release date: 12/11/2018



BALPA has responded to misrepresented claims in the media that a Flybe pilot was dismissed for fear of flying.

A BALPA spokesperson said:

"The reason for Matthew Guest's dismissal has been misrepresented in the press. Contrary to the press reports, Matthew did not experience 'fear of flying'. The up-to-date medical evidence, as reported in the judgment, cites a temporary social anxiety. At the time Flybe decided to dismiss Matthew, all of the relevant medical experts confirmed that he was fit to return to work. The Civil Aviation Authority’s consultant had concluded that Matthew was fit to fly subject to a satisfactory medical flight test. Nevertheless, Flybe decided to dismiss Matthew without considering the up-to-date medical evidence and without giving Matthew an opportunity to make his case to the ultimate decision maker; Luke Farajallah, the company’s then Chief Operating Officer. The Tribunal concluded that no reasonable employer would have decided to dismiss Matthew in these circumstances.

“Matthew took the sensible decision to request time off to deal with his condition and was unfairly dismissed as a result. We’re disappointed this has been so widely and inaccurately reported and it shows there is a long way to go in recognising and supporting workers affected by mental health issues. This could be hugely damaging to Matthew in gaining future employment and also to the likelihood of other pilots reporting similar mental health conditions to their employers in the future.”
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 06:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cabsav View Post
Just in the interest of balance, BALPA have replied to the press article.

BALPA response on pilot 'fear of flying' story

Release date: 12/11/2018



BALPA has responded to misrepresented claims in the media that a Flybe pilot was dismissed for fear of flying.

A BALPA spokesperson said:

"....... ”
OK, everyplace that the Daily Mail article refers to fear of flying, lets replace that with "social anxiety of a degree which interferes with him performing as a flight crew" I don't see that the situation has changed meaningfully.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 07:50
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Social Anxiety

Originally Posted by A Squared View Post
OK, everyplace that the Daily Mail article refers to fear of flying, lets replace that with "social anxiety of a degree which interferes with him performing as a flight crew" I don't see that the situation has changed meaningfully.
Well it changes the context by removing the sensationalist click bait crap out of it. One definition of social anxiety is "the fear of being judged and evaluated negatively by other people, leading to feelings of inadequacy, inferiority, self-consciousness, embarrassment, humiliation, and depression." Probably enough there to say this guy has a mental health issue and shouldn't be on the flight deck of a commercial airliner. But in fairness to him he voluntarily withdrew himself and called in sick rather than hiding his problem.

Funny really but I can relate to a kind of similar event that I have only recognised reading this thread. I was a local examiner and route checker for non-pilot military aircrew in a previous life. One of our top guys on the squadron showed signs of withdrawal which no one took any real notice of until he started making rookies errors while flying. We brought forward his six monthly check ride and I was instructed to assess him. I failed him on the check ride on things I couldn't believe including pre-flight checklist failures missing challenge and response checklist items or just not responding to them. I reported to the CO and recommended he be suspended from flying pending assessment for return to flying duties whereupon the CO could not believe that this top guy could suddenly be in that position. He interviewed him and received very little feedback or explanation to his questions and was left with no option but to approve my recommendation. The hope was that we could work on this guy and get back on the horse again but after 6 months in a ground job he left the military. He had over 5000 hours on type and there was no suggestion he was scared of flying but his actions, inactions and withdrawal seem to fit well with the definition of social anxiety now I have seen this.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 08:40
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cabsav View Post
Just in the interest of balance, BALPA have replied to the press article.BALPA response on pilot 'fear of flying' story

Release date: 12/11/2018



BALPA has responded to misrepresented claims in the media that a Flybe pilot was dismissed for fear of flying.

A BALPA spokesperson said:
At the time Flybe decided to dismiss Matthew, all of the relevant medical experts confirmed that he was fit to return to work.
By way of contrast, here's what the Mr Guest's Therapist's final report prior to the termination *actually* said:

Whilst Matthew has made impressive progress in working in a more targeted was on the underlying causes for the social anxiety, and ways of managing the symptoms, and has managed all the behavioural experiments well, it is difficult to predict the longevity of his progress until he is placed back in the flight deck and tests this out…”
Seems if you're going to complain about a news source misrepresenting claims, then you probably ought to refrain from doing so yourself.

For context, bear in mind that he had already been though two cycles of "Doctor says I'm good to go back to work" then after going back to work: "WHooops, guess I wasn't good to go back to work after all".

Last edited by A Squared; 13th Nov 2018 at 09:54.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:23
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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without giving Matthew an opportunity to make his case to the ultimate decision maker
Not meaning to make light of this but I cant help but feel this was the reason the employer chose the path they did.
Worth noting as well, that he was not dismissed out of hand but
offered an alternative role as Flight Safety Support Officer based in Exeter.
This was a fixed 12 month role with existing pay protections and hotel accommodation covered with potential for remote working (he was BHX based).
In subsequent correspondence the claimant was told that if he rejected this role his employment would end on 24 March 2017 with three months’ pay in lieu of notice.
Which he did.

The BALPA statement says that
The Tribunal concluded that no reasonable employer would have decided to dismiss Matthew in these circumstances.
Yet the Tribunal judgement finds that
..2. Had the respondent acted fairly there was a two thirds chance that it would have dismissed the claimant; and any compensatory award would be reduced accordingly.
Not quite the same in my view and therefore more about procedural fairness rather than a question of fitness to fly.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 16:21
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
If you had a brain tumor and just before the op to remove it, you found out that the surgeon had a phobia towards brain matter, was relieved of his position but one "i" was not dotted and the hospital was forced to re-employ him, what would your position be?
I don't see how this is a response to the text you quoted. It's a non sequitur. You quoted:

"An employee with a mental health illness should be given the same sick leave and possible medical retirement privileges as an employee with a physical illness. Anything less is discriminatory."

... and this should apply to the brain surgeon the same as the pilot, the same as any other employee.
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Old 14th Nov 2018, 08:19
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I've been involved in a couple of 'employment issues' recently - not concerning me but as employee support. This is about whether Flybe followed their own procedures rather than fitness to fly.
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