Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

JAL pilot over the limit in London

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

JAL pilot over the limit in London

Old 29th Nov 2018, 16:05
  #41 (permalink)  
Dep Chief PPRuNe Pilot
 
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,242
10 month sentence in court earlier today for the Japanese pilot. 9 times over the limit.

Rob
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 01:55
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: between 20 & 30 000'
Posts: 46
I'm devastated, the company I work for has cancelled the 2018 Christmas party due to the recent alcohol incidents. I kid you not!
gtseraf is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 13:57
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 61
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by Doug E Style View Post


Just saying, “call in sick” ought to be enough.
All that does is kick the can down the road.
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 14:33
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,425
What I want to know is what drives a guy to kill off his career like that? I'm not defending his actions but I do feel sorry for him in respect of whatever made him take that road to professional suicide!
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2018, 15:30
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 61
Posts: 401
Alcoholism is a addiction. That is why the constant posts about just telling someone to call in sick are the worst possible advice. The only way to have any reasonable chance of solving the problem is to get the individual into treatment. Alcohol is the drug of choice for getting high in most parts of the world. Those with a addiction to it lose all rational ability to understand what it does to their families and careers.
Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2018, 01:23
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 53
Japan has a horrible alcohol problem. Binge drinking after work is extremely common and almost mandatory at many companies. Combine that with the males of the society being viewed as ATM's for the family and you have a recipe for alcoholism. Anyone who's walked through a busy area of Tokyo in the evening, or better yet ridden a train there at night, has seen it.
paradoxbox is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2018, 01:40
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: between 20 & 30 000'
Posts: 46
add to the problem, a society which shuns any admission of suffering from alcoholism, depression, etc. and you get people painted into corners by society, resulting in things like this and worse happening
gtseraf is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2018, 02:24
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,466
Originally Posted by Sailvi767 View Post
Alcoholism is a addiction. That is why the constant posts about just telling someone to call in sick are the worst possible advice. The only way to have any reasonable chance of solving the problem is to get the individual into treatment. Alcohol is the drug of choice for getting high in most parts of the world. Those with a addiction to it lose all rational ability to understand what it does to their families and careers.
Not everyone who shows to work under the influence is an alcoholic/problem drinker. Sometimes it's simply a mistake, or the result of a severe trauma in an individuals live that temporarily gets the better of them. In those cases, 'calling in sick' is an appropriate short term solution. I went through a period like that ~30 years ago, after getting dumped by my (former) fiance. I don't think I ever showed up drunk for work, but I was pretty hungover a few times...
However if it's happening on a regular basis - then you're correct, the person needs help.
tdracer is online now  
Old 6th Dec 2018, 22:31
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FRA
Posts: 19
Talking

I was a flight attendant for one of the large airlines in Japan and never experienced drunk pilots or colleagues in the 2.5 years of flying long-haul. Although paradoxbox is completely right about drinking culture of Japanese business men and office workers (in the worst case, you find them lying around the streets and subway stations, unable to go home and just returning back to work in the morning) but all the crew members I worked with did the exact opposite. It is all about "fitting in" in Japan. You drink with your colleagues to fit into the office culture, but you do not drink more than a glass at dinner to fit in with your pilot cohort. So they can very much behave responsibly. This individual must have had a personal issue to break the rules.
The Japanese culture definitely distributes the responsibility amongst the colleagues, so presumably the other two pilots knew that this guy is intoxicated and would have set him to crew rest for the duration of the flight without reporting it, thus covering for him but also themselves. (Same for cabin crew who might get very ill shortly before a flight back home)
Now that it became a big public issue, the other pilots are probably going to be held responsible for not better supervising their "younger" colleague. I agree that heavy and repeated drinking is an illness, but from my experience this is a minority within the cockpit and cabin crew. Japanese crew proud and overly meticulous in their approach to work and my time felt very much like I was in the military - so strict and diligent! Hai!
Frequent_Flyer is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 07:19
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Frequent_Flyer View Post
I was a flight attendant for one of the large airlines in Japan and never experienced drunk pilots or colleagues in the 2.5 years of flying long-haul. Although paradoxbox is completely right about drinking culture of Japanese business men and office workers (in the worst case, you find them lying around the streets and subway stations, unable to go home and just returning back to work in the morning) but all the crew members I worked with did the exact opposite. It is all about "fitting in" in Japan. You drink with your colleagues to fit into the office culture, but you do not drink more than a glass at dinner to fit in with your pilot cohort. So they can very much behave responsibly. This individual must have had a personal issue to break the rules.
The Japanese culture definitely distributes the responsibility amongst the colleagues, so presumably the other two pilots knew that this guy is intoxicated and would have set him to crew rest for the duration of the flight without reporting it, thus covering for him but also themselves. (Same for cabin crew who might get very ill shortly before a flight back home)
Now that it became a big public issue, the other pilots are probably going to be held responsible for not better supervising their "younger" colleague. I agree that heavy and repeated drinking is an illness, but from my experience this is a minority within the cockpit and cabin crew. Japanese crew proud and overly meticulous in their approach to work and my time felt very much like I was in the military - so strict and diligent! Hai!
Unfortunately the facts don't line up with your assessment.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...-rules-pilots/

According to data from the Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism Ministry shown to an experts’ panel called to discuss the issue, there have been 37 cases since 2013 in which airline pilots were found to have been drinking alcohol beyond the company-set limits before their scheduled flights, 20 of which led to either the cancellation or delay of the flights. Such cases took place in seven of the 25 domestic airline firms, with JAL accounting for 21 of the 37 cases, followed by eight cases involving All Nippon Airways.
And these are just the guys that were caught. I would imagine the vast majority go undetected.
Tokyo Geoff is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2018, 08:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FRA
Posts: 19
I left the airline in 2011, so the incident measurement starts 2 years after that. Still, 21 drunk JAL pilots between 2013 and 2018 would equal 0.71 cases per calendar year.

"According to data from the Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism Ministry shown to an experts’ panel called to discuss the issue, there have been 37 cases since 2013 in which airline pilots were found to have been drinking alcohol beyond the company-set limits before their scheduled flights, 20 of which led to either the cancellation or delay of the flights. Such cases took place in seven of the 25 domestic airline firms, with JAL accounting for 21 of the 37 cases, followed by eight cases involving All Nippon Airways."

But if you want to believe that all JAL pilots are constantly drunk, it's your choice!
Frequent_Flyer is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2019, 08:01
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 633
So how far will this go?

All Nippon Airways Co said Saturday a co-pilot at its Air Japan Co subsidiary was prevented from flying after testing positive in a pre-flight alcohol check, the latest in a string of similar incidents among Japanese carriers. The co-pilot, in his 40s, had planned to fly without telling his company about his alcohol consumption the night before, ANA said. On Thursday night he consumed between two and three times the limit set by the company, which is equivalent to two mid-sized bottles of beer, or about 1 liter. But he did not tell the company this when he was asked to fly to Yangon, Myanmar, from Narita airport near Tokyo, on Friday, ANA said. He was not initially scheduled to be working on that flight. The pilot started drinking vodka at home before 5 p.m. and the company contacted him around 7:40 p.m. to request that he be on the flight. The company prohibits drinking in the 12 hours before a flight, and the pilot said he had not breached this regulation. The flight to Yangon was scheduled for 11 a.m. He was replaced by another pilot after breathalyzer tests before the flight detected 0.25 milligram of alcohol per liter. The transport ministry on Friday urged another subsidiary of ANA, ANA Wings Co, to improve operations after one of its pilots tested positive in a pre-flight alcohol check. Japan's airline sector has been mired in similar incidents, prompting the ministry to urge airlines to review their alcohol rules and introduce mandatory alcohol tests for pilots.

© KYODO

https://japantoday.com/category/nati...ng-breath-test
jolihokistix is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2019, 12:49
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here, there, and everywhere
Posts: 716
A freind of mine at a foreign carrier told me that about 18 months ago, an expat Japanese pilot at his airline was fired for failing a test as well.
punkalouver is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2019, 13:16
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The South
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by RoyHudd View Post
According to many of our non-pilot "experts" on this website, the job is so easy that it would not matter one bit if the operator/pilot was drunk.

According to other "experts", the book should be thrown at him.

Make up your minds.....and remember that the average long-haul pilot landing after a transatlantic flight with no sleep is estimated to think and react at the equivalent of 160 mg/100ml. Just a bit short of the JAL First Officer.
And this has been known for years but is in the too difficult/inconvenient box for companies & regulators to deal with. Much easier to nail individual pilots who may have a drink problem in an environment where you can't own up and say so. ALPA sorted this out years ago
Timmy Tomkins is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.