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-   -   JAL pilot over the limit in London (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/614974-jal-pilot-over-limit-london.html)

msbbarratt 1st Nov 2018 15:33

JAL pilot over the limit in London
 
Japan Times

msbbarratt 1st Nov 2018 15:34

Nikei Shimbun is reporting that he was 9 times over the limit. Apparently JAL pilots are routinely breathalysed before the flight, which he passed, but a bus driver (taking them out to the plane?) had smelled booze and called the police. Questions are now being asked about the reliability of the breathalysers JAL uses before boarding.

slfool 1st Nov 2018 18:48


Originally Posted by msbbarratt (Post 10298915)
Questions are now being asked about the reliability of the breathalysers JAL uses before boarding.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46062122

He was arrested by the police so he will have been breathalysed by them. And he pleaded guilty. So the questions would indeed seem to be reasonable...

Doors to Automatic 1st Nov 2018 19:33

That is well over twice the legal drink driving limit. What on earth was he thinking? I hope they throw the book at him.

SMT Member 1st Nov 2018 19:49

1,89 is 2,5 times over the limit for driving in the UK, almost 9 over the limit for committing aviation. Raises serious questions about the individuals ability to make sound decisions, a decision which in this case should have been to call in sick, lock the hotel door and ride it out. An even sounder decision would have been to stay off the juice in suck quantities, as to blow a 1,89 when you report for duty. That's well and truly legless for the majority of people.

Pinkman 1st Nov 2018 20:36

Beating the Breathalyser
 
If JAL routinely breathalyse and he passed, and then blew that massive score, its consistent with having a swig of duty free after the test e.g. in the loo but before boarding the crew bus/aircraft. It would explain the massively high result as typically BAC breath readings are falsely high for the first 20 minutes or so then settle down.

RoyHudd 1st Nov 2018 20:37

According to many of our non-pilot "experts" on this website, the job is so easy that it would not matter one bit if the operator/pilot was drunk.

According to other "experts", the book should be thrown at him.

Make up your minds.....and remember that the average long-haul pilot landing after a transatlantic flight with no sleep is estimated to think and react at the equivalent of 160 mg/100ml. Just a bit short of the JAL First Officer.

Buswinker 1st Nov 2018 22:17

Iím more interested by this part of the story


Japan Airlines said the flight was delayed more than an hour and had to be operated by the remaining two pilots.

msbbarratt 2nd Nov 2018 08:21


Originally Posted by Pinkman (Post 10299149)
If JAL routinely breathalyse and he passed, and then blew that massive score, its consistent with having a swig of duty free after the test e.g. in the loo but before boarding the crew bus/aircraft. It would explain the massively high result as typically BAC breath readings are falsely high for the first 20 minutes or so then settle down.

Nikei Shimbun reported an extensive list of beverages apparently consumed 2 nights earlier...

Tokyo Geoff 2nd Nov 2018 09:08


Originally Posted by msbbarratt (Post 10299476)
Nikei Shimbun reported an extensive list of beverages apparently consumed 2 nights earlier...

One night wasn't it? Started drinking from 6pm Saturday before being due to take off at 7pm Sunday

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Jap...-over-drinking


JAL said the co-pilot was found to be more than 10 times over the legal limit set under British aviation law after he drank two bottles of wine and more than 1.8 liters of beer over six hours from 6 p.m., the night before the flight on Sunday.
...

Due to the arrest, the flight's departure for Haneda airport scheduled for 7 p.m. Sunday local time was delayed by 1 hour and 9 minutes.
japan Times reports this:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.W9wF3FUzbmU


JAL said the level of alcohol in the 42-year-old copilot’s system sharply exceeded the legal limit in Britain after drinking two bottles of wine and five cans of beer for six hours from 6 p.m. the night before the flight to Haneda airport.

ImageGear 2nd Nov 2018 09:57

In my much earlier experience of working with the Japanese, there will be considerable loss of face and standing in their community, to the point at which their own existence may become irrelevant and require drastic action. I wonder if the culture is still as prevalent today.

What a way to end a career, he will be feeling the pain for ever.

IG

EternalNY1 2nd Nov 2018 12:03


Originally Posted by Pinkman (Post 10299149)
If JAL routinely breathalyse and he passed, and then blew that massive score, its consistent with having a swig of duty free after the test e.g. in the loo but before boarding the crew bus/aircraft. It would explain the massively high result as typically BAC breath readings are falsely high for the first 20 minutes or so then settle down.

That was my immediate assumption too, it explains both the passed test as well as the high reading.

Capt Scribble 2nd Nov 2018 13:49

Or someone else somehow took the test for him.

wideman 2nd Nov 2018 15:38


Originally Posted by Buswinker (Post 10299229)
Iím more interested by this part of the story [that the LHR-HND flight was operated by 2 pilots]

JL requires 3 pilots on flights >12 hours. HND-LHR is 12h15m, while the return LHR-HND is 11h45m. So, it would've been within company rules to have only 2 crew for the return flight.

Buswinker 2nd Nov 2018 23:14


Originally Posted by wideman (Post 10299779)
JL requires 3 pilots on flights >12 hours. HND-LHR is 12h15m, while the return LHR-HND is 11h45m. So, it would've been within company rules to have only 2 crew for the return flight.

yes. I donít doubt itís legal but it seems not a good look to me

Rated De 3rd Nov 2018 00:40

wondering why the post was deleted?

exeng 3rd Nov 2018 00:48

Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?

It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.

If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?

Interesting stuff.


Kind regards
Exeng

hitchens97 3rd Nov 2018 01:15

So from you older pilots what do you do if you suspect your colleague has drunk alcohol?

Do you say "call in sick or I turn you in"?
Do you just turn them in?
Ignore?

What I find shocking is that it was the driver who reported it and not one of his colleagues. Is there some Omerta here that us SLF need to be worried about?

Airbubba 3rd Nov 2018 03:30


Originally Posted by exeng (Post 10300148)
Whatever happened to the Pilot from BA who was reported as being 'drunk' before departing ARN about 10 or 15 years ago? Apparently he was sacked. Was there a prosecution - and if so what was the result?

It's a long time ago but it seems that at the time all the press were reporting that the pilot was drunk - and yet I can find no news of a prosecution. Is it possible that the authorities found that blood test results indicated the pilot was not actually 'drunk', or was it possible that the authorities somehow 'messed up' or 'lost' the tests.

If not prosecuted, or if prosecuted and found not guilty then it would seem unjust that the pilot was sacked.. I believe that because of the uncertainty the pilot was sacked because he had 'brought the company into disrepute'. Is that so?

Probably this 2003 case below, maybe he copped a walk if the Swedes didn't prosecute but one of the posts in the OSL thread linked below said he was indeed sacked by BA. I don't know what happened, some of these cases make a splash in the media but these days are quietly resolved with a plea bargain and a secret squirrel rehab deal.

With the case in OSL around the same time, the BA captain was sober but allowed his drunk FO to show up for the flight. The OSL BA captain got sentenced to six months in prison.


BA pilot 'fails breath test at airport'

A British Airways pilot is facing the sack after allegedly being caught over the alcohol limit as he prepared to fly a passenger plane to London.

It is understood that the pilot was held by Swedish police after failing a breath test he was asked to take before the flight was due to leave from Arlanda airport near Stockholm.

A British Airways spokeswoman said the pilot, who has not been named, has been removed from flying duties while a full BA investigation was carried out, in addition to the inquiry by Swedish police.

"We are extremely concerned to hear of this alleged incident," the spokeswoman said.

She said BA had "very strict rules governing the use of alcohol" which amounted to a "zero tolerance" policy.

"It's a disciplinary offence for an employee to report for work impaired by alcohol and it is deemed to be gross misconduct, which can result in dismissal.

"A full investigation has been launched."

The spokeswoman said the pilot had been flown back to the UK, where he was "helping" with the investigation.


Story filed: 21:40 Saturday 25th January 2003

Translation of the swedish newspaper article.

Svenska Dagbladet
1-2-2003

Unclear if drunk pilot will be charged

The BA captain who was stopped just before start at Arlanda last sarurday, was under the influence of alcohol. The result of the blood test that came in yesterday shows 0.59 promille.
But BjŲrn Frithiof, the public prosecutor who leads the investigation, has not decided if he will or will not bring charges.
- Off the cuff, I feel that the action is so serious that charges are indicated. But here is a possibilty to refrain from bringing charges, since the pilot concerned is not swedish and lives abroad. One can also require him to be charged in England.-
Aviation rules do not state any promille limits and the concept of of "drunk flying" does not exist. But someone who is so much under the influence of alcohol or other substances when working on a flight deck that he "can not execute his duties in a safe manner" can get up to two years in prison, or be fined when the transgression is of a lesser nature.










Contemporaneous PPRuNe discussion of the ARN incident:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...ested-arn.html

and of the OSL incident:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...sentences.html

FL11967 3rd Nov 2018 11:50


Originally Posted by ImageGear (Post 10299529)
In my much earlier experience of working with the Japanese, there will be considerable loss of face and standing in their community, to the point at which their own existence may become irrelevant and require drastic action. I wonder if the culture is still as prevalent today.

What a way to end a career, he will be feeling the pain for ever.

IG

Has it been confirmed he is local and not expat?


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